roonie
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Post by roonie on Dec 31, 2016 8:53:06 GMT
Yesterday was our fourth wedding anniversary our third since our little boy came home and the first time since then we have been able to celebrate it, our little man was finally ready for his first sleepover at his grandmas and apparently all has gone well....I just felt sad at the end of the evening that our life together has changed so much, there is a sadness in my husbands eyes now that I know is there as he sees the sadness in mine. We talked about how our sparkle had been dulled a little and I cried with guilt that I feel this way sometimes. We love our little boy so very much but the exhaustion, triangulation, control issues, mammoth meltdowns and the differences in opinion on how to deal with these things has created a world we both still struggle with daily and a world we navigate with blindfold on praying we won't get it wrong. We have reached out to post adoption support and have our first meeting on first march, my only worry is back when I expressed concerns in the early days on placement the blame was on me that I was too anxious and he was fine, and dare I say they told me to ignore his meltdowns as they were attention seeking, I feel sick when I look back knowing I followed their advice for a while. I guess my post here is to ask how you guys keep the spark in your relationships with your partner, how you ensure the child does not triangulate you as our son is so much better one on one that we are beginning to feel this is the only way. At times I wonder if I should just tell my husband to run for the hills and my heart is breaking for all of us. Sorry for the rambling! Thank you for reading x
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Post by esty on Dec 31, 2016 9:03:02 GMT
Oh I am very sorry to read this and my heart goes out to you. I have no advice as a single adopter but whenever you present your case just remember that every adopter is right beside you and believes and many are experiencing the same. Be strong. The only thing I would suggest is acceptance that 1:1 whilst other partner has time away is the way to go until you get support and if you can get grandparents to step up more use them and get out together more. I have ended up seeing my parenting of Little Minnow as a 24 hour job as there is little of being a mum in it. I have to be tactical and determined and foever 160 steps in front. If I was to think about just being a mum I would get lost in pity for myself so choose the worker route and that way keep myself level headed and able to cope. He wouldn't realise this though. I am mum to him and all that his experience of mums incorporates, good and bad. Supportive hugs.
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Dec 31, 2016 9:11:07 GMT
Thank you etsy I think one in one for a while will be the only way, I guess it's the classic case of things not being how we imagined and grieving for that image of how our lives would be with lo and dealing with that. I am hoping pas will help, courses, strategies etc is what we need. I will try the job way of thinking it sounds like a very good strategy that would work for me thanks so much for your reply, it means so much xxx
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Post by serrakunda on Dec 31, 2016 13:08:48 GMT
hi there, sorry its so difficult right now,
Im another singly so can't give marital advice but self care is important. Try and set some time aside for each other and as individuals to recharge.
I do think its important that you reach an agreement on how to approach things though. You need united front.
How old is your son, how does he get along at school?
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Dec 31, 2016 15:31:49 GMT
Thanks serrakunda, My son has just turned four agreement is vital and we have been pretty carp lately with it as my dh is more traditional and I do fear he buries his head at times but last night on our own helped us talk things through a little and both agreee we probably have compassion fatigue to a degree and it's impacting us both but differently if that makes sense. My little boy has come back from grandmas very tired but in a good mood but I feel we are constantly walking on eggshells just waiting for the next attempt at control, meltdown when we redirect or dare I say, say no to something, normally sweets as he is obsessed and eats them in a fashion that worries me, gorges and doesn't seem to even enjoy them just shovels them in. This is fear extends from time in foster care when fc used sweets and biscuits to placate, who knows how this afternoon and evening will go I just know going forward in to 2017 if something doesn't change one of us is going to crack x
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Post by serrakunda on Dec 31, 2016 16:29:35 GMT
it sounds very tough
we have a bit of a sweetie issue here too!
generally, have you tried ways to make him think he is in control, ie give him two options, both of which are acceptable to you, try not to say 'no' or put things in negative terms. I struggle to be consistent with this myself, but it is better if I can be more positive.
important to pick your battles, again its difficult but try to focus on the things that really matter and let the other stuff go.
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Dec 31, 2016 18:08:45 GMT
Thank you lovely lady I appreciate your wisdom we do choices and it helps. Now we have a new issue of walking in on him and his cousin naked earlier this evening with plastic gloves and nappies....could be innocent but when I tried to explain our bodies are precious and only mummy daddy or a doctor should ever touch on the genital area to apply cream or help wipe etc he got very angry and told me it's a secret he will never tell us and to be quiet he also went pink and angry. His cousin is 8 and now we are at a loss as to how to handle. X
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Post by esty on Dec 31, 2016 19:35:39 GMT
I'm not sure whether precious is a term i would use as it has a number of meanings and could confuse the issue. But would emphasise keep ourselves safe. How old was he when he went into care and how long in care? It could be he was ashamed at being caught doing something he knows/thinks is wrong or is there a history of anything in his background? Depending on the answer to that is how much I would worry about it. Perhaps making sure in future he and 'friend/cousin/whoever' are not left alone. We have an open door policy here with only some friends allowed upstairs and only with the doors kept open. Some friends who I don't know anything about arn't allowed upstairs or in a room downstairs by themselves with my youngest son with door shut.
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Dec 31, 2016 20:27:51 GMT
SThanks etsy I didn't actually use the word precious said body parts are private etc he was 8 days old when entered mother and baby fc and six months when that broke down, fourteen months when he came to us he is now just four, cousin is eight. To be honest I agree that open door is the best policy, we normally do this but st my sisters they wee playing football in the basement then it went quiet so I went down to c what was happening and found his cousin nude, nappies laid out and both with guilty looks, I asked my son what they were playing and if they were being babies and changing nappies and he got very angry, embarrassed and said I'm not talking about it this is my secret and cousin said we should never tell our mummy or daddy....
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Post by serrakunda on Dec 31, 2016 21:26:42 GMT
have you told your sister?
If the cousin is 8 and your child is 4, msybe not assume the issue is just with your son. Its the cousin who said you mustn't tell mummy and daddy, and I doubt a 4 year old could co-erce an 8 year old into playing games he didnt want to play
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Dec 31, 2016 21:33:57 GMT
I agree serrakunda I have tried to talk to my sister a very educated, sensible person who has dealt with children throughout her career and also has another child with severe complex medical needs and cerebral palsy and she laughed like it was nothing I went off feeling I was over reacting I am ultimately not comfortable with this and feel something is not right due ty sons reaction when I tried to broach it, we have never made him ashamed or embarrassed about body so where has this secretive bashful behaviour stemmed from I keep wondering. I will try and speak to my lb over the next few days and no plans to see cousin in the next few weeks which is good
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Post by mudlark on Dec 31, 2016 22:44:03 GMT
Hi ...Going back to your question about keeping the spark alive in your marriage..I think it is vital to the long term happiness of your family. My DH and I have come under huge stress over the last three years...At times our joi de Vivre almost totally crushed. You must make time for you as a couple. You must also accept that you parent differently and make it work. You must also not blame each other as none of the trauma brought into your lives is your fault.
Get a regular baby sitter
Make sure you back each other up.
Remember to laugh with each other.
Remember who you were when you got married.
I feel for you....It is incredibly hard work.
Be kind to each other.
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Post by damson on Jan 1, 2017 20:57:13 GMT
Hang in there Roonie, the nappies business sounds just as daft as my AD showing off where to go to the toilet in the hedge to a lad at school. The headteacher was the one to bring me down off the ceiling, and she managed to do it kindly. I still felt a mixture of shame and the horror of the story doing the rounds amongst the socially savvy girls in AD's year (it didn't - the other kid had issues of his own that kept him quiet too.) The nappy business sounds like a cross between dressing up (or down) and the usual let me see what you've got. The cousin needs an eye kept on her when she comes to play, but then I always had to keep a sharp eye on my children, with or without playmates. Putting nappies on a 4 yr old would be quite a challenge, far more fun than dressing a dolly  I bet he already knows about private parts from nursery/ school, hence the pink face. The constant threat of meltdowns is hugely tiring. 4 is hard if he has just gone into school full time, as he's likely to be so tired. (Yes, I know it's holiday, Christmas is harder than school.) I used to announce that my AD or AS was ill, and they'd have a day off, sick or no. You may find that takes some of the sting out of school. Think of your little lad as 2.5 rather than 4, and then consider what a success you have already made. My kids couldn't do a sleepover alone till far, far older. I'm with Mudlark - Make time for yourselves, and calmly use a babysitter. Go out regularly, and do something fun. xx Damson |
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Post by leo on Jan 1, 2017 21:52:58 GMT
Hi Roonie, sounds like you have a lot going on! Is there any way that the meeting with Post Adoption can be brought forward - 1st March is still a long way off.
I'm afraid I can't give you advice on relationships as I am also single - but I would also recommend regular time 'off' to spend time together as a couple.
In preparation for your meeting with Post Adoption, I would keep a detailed diary for one week - split into sections of control, aggression, sleep issues... (whatever your most pressing issues are). Also, begin to think about what type of help and support you actually want/need (Social Services are more likely to be responsive if you already know what you want).
I hope things improve in the short term and that you and your husband are able to support each other.
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Post by topcat on Jan 2, 2017 15:24:58 GMT
so I guess the quietness on the side of us married adopters may give you a clue to how hard we all feel it too...it cuts to the bone of what we have taken on by being adopters and is probably too complex and upsetting to set out on a forum.
Communication in any form is worth its weight in gold and, as Mudlark says, making time to be together...a cuddle before you fall asleep, 20 minutes catch-up in the quiet before your own bed time, a kiss coming home from work. These are the things that get lost along the way but will keep you together better than the long planned and high expectation romantic weekend or whatever. Sometimes I feel more like a 1950s couple: such defined roles, all work and no play, sex on special occasions...so then I think it's about remembering to appreciate what you each do, find some comfort in the things that work.
2016 was a super challenging year for us and we were pulled in opposite directions on parenting approaches. There are some fundamental differences, we believe, between how men approach family challenges to how women do. This is perhaps further emphasized when the challenge comes, as in our case, from a son. The social worker, support and primary school teacher environment is predominantly female and my husband has always felt isolated and as if his instincts, ideas, experience are somehow less valid. I, in turn, have felt helpless to bridge those frustrations of his.
Most important is probably trust, risking it going wrong and forgiveness when it does - on both sides.
I think keeping a 'spark' may be too much to hope for sometimes but thankfully we still enjoy a warm glow!
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Post by daffin on Jan 2, 2017 23:10:06 GMT
I really love Topcat's response!
Yes, keeping the spark is hard. DH and I now have a regular date night. We both go out perhaps one evening a week on our own, too. This sounds like we are having a wild social life but from the inside it feels like we are holding on to being the people we once were by our very finger tips.
We don't have relatives who are able to help with child care so depend on babysitters. It's a good investment. We use the same one. The kids know her. We always put the kids to bed before we go out. On summer evenings we walk across fields to a local pub, have a pint and walk back. The babysitter costs more than the date, but we've been out and talked and enjoyed each other's company. We also push the boat out and go to the cinema or for a curry sometimes.
Most importantly, though, we have regular 'checking in' with each other sessions. These focus strongly on what 'the boy' has been up to, how it makes us feel, strategies for dealing with it, how we can inject some happiness and optimism into our lives etc.
But we also try to find other things to talk about, other than 'the boy'. Current affairs, for example.....
When Monkey Boy was 4, and before he started school, we ended up taking him to Family Futures for a comprehensive assessment. It was the start of a series of assessments and then a long long fight for support but in that process DH and I have developed a shared understanding of the issues - though we still differ in terms of instinctive parenting styles and strengths and weaknesses in dealing with the non-stop-ness of living with a very damaged little boy.
Our son is different when alone with DH compared to me - so we don't have the same experiences of parenting him and I get targeted by some fairly non-stop behaviour, which DH only gets intermittently, so inevitably we have to work hard to make sure we understand each other's different experience of reality.
On the nappy issue - my son 'plays nappies' with several of his friends. He disappears and is quiet with them while putting on pull-ups, which may or may not be combined with dressing up clothes and may or may not morph into 'playing babies'. He was embarrassed the first time we found him but we didn't see it as sinister- but there was no secrecy. I think the suggestion of no closed doors and no upstairs play with certain friends/relatives may be a good idea. Follow your instinct - if you feel uncomfortable, supervise closely.
Re seeing post adoption in March. Get them to bring the date forward. Be insistent!
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Jan 3, 2017 21:31:19 GMT
Thank you all of you ladies for the advice, understanding and for just being there finding this forum has been a blessing for sure. I will definitely be chasing post adoption team, I have been trying to get help since July and I agree March is too long to wait, especially as our little man will start school in September this year and I want things in place and more stable before this happens. It's funny as today and yesterday have been good days, ou know the ones where you can't actually believe there have been no meltdowns, triangulation, severe desire to control everything and everyone and it always makes me insecure that I am over analysing or being dramatic etc but I know our son, better than anyone and I know early intervention would benefit and also help us function better as a family. Sometimes we joke our house is run by a mini dictator, but joking aside this often feels the case.
Damson, I agree the nappies thing is amusing I guess I am looking st everything in a bad light at the moment and need to be less worried, cousin is male not female but I guess it could be a boy comparing thing too as our lo is circumcised and cousin is not...? I have also been taking it back to basics and treating younger as suggested, he always responds to this and seems more secure. Thank you,
Mudlark, the relationship hints and tips are great and your words about not blaming were helpful, very helpful.
Leo, thanks for your words of wisdom in preparation of the meeting with post adoption a diary is a great idea and will maybe help me see patterns emerging. Christmas is definitely not a good time for him, too much disruption to his life too many people, too much noise and over stimulation. He physicallly shows such signs of stress, red face, manic play, clingy etc and it amazes me that others just smile and say things like oooh he is so excited, etc aaaaaaaagh. Sorry slight rant there!
Topcat, I see your point about female domination in the areas we have to navigate and it sounds like your husband expresses his frustration better than mine, I think I can be a little undermining at times though so will need to check myself a little more! I agree about the roles being rather 1950s at times too, that made me smile a little as so true! Thanks x
Darrin thanks to you also for all the advice, reassurance and experience of being more targeted with certain behaviour compared to your husband, this resonates massively
I know I sound like a freak thanking you all individually but wanted to say how grateful I am as really do appreciate that you have taken time out of your busy lives to offer me support and advice if means a lot xxxx
🙏
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Post by daffin on Jan 4, 2017 6:35:57 GMT
Roonie - keep posting.
Don't feel you're ranting. You're not.
We've all been there and the ability to 'talk' to people who get it has been an absolute life line for me.
We are all happy to share our experiences and support another adopter.
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Post by mudlark on Jan 4, 2017 11:42:43 GMT
I agree with Daffin ...Keep us updated ..It's important not to feel alone and sometimes having somewhere to write it down and know there are others listening and really willing you on ....Helps....I know it's helped me plenty of times.
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Post by runmum on Jan 4, 2017 19:18:39 GMT
Hi Roonie. Just seen this. Sorry to hear about how you have been feeling. Be reassured it's very common. Rundad and I have definitely lost a bit of our spark simply because our relationship is all about parenting our boys. We do now have one babysitter who can cope but it needs to be more than just having dinner every couple of months. We are trying to find ways to relate as a couple not as parents but it's very hard given as you say all the meltdowns. Rundad is also on the more traditional side parenting style wise. We adoptive parents have to work super hard at trusting each other to parent without over-compensating for differences in style which with the best will in the world will always exist. We are all here to support each other so keep posting and we will do our best to help.
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Jan 15, 2017 11:32:24 GMT
Well today is not a good day I have realised that we may have left things too late, i don't agree with so many ways my husband parents and the "he's got to learn" attitude he seems to have all the time, the reluctance to understand the sensory behaviours and the frustration he seems to have with him, They went erday morning and for two blissful hours I had the house to myself. It was heaven. However for the rest of the weekend it feels like because he did take him swimming all care and household chores were now for me, to be honest I do prefer that at times as I am more responsive and recognise our sons needs better but it's the fact that the way my dh behaves exactly the same as before our little one joined us, on the I pad checking football reading paper sitting down for a "chill" etc and I'm running around ensuring fed, watered, stimulated but not over stimulated, recognising the signs of over tired versus bored etc and it's all on me. This morning I snapped and told my husband to cut out being so negative and with all the he has to learn bollo*ks, then of course two sad love songs came on which had me unloading the dishwasher in tears, son unaware as was glued to CBeebies in then other room. I feel I have had enough but know separation is a last resort mainly due to the impact on our son
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Jan 15, 2017 11:35:37 GMT
Oh and to to it off parents on way for lunch and we will all pretend everything is "fine"
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Post by jmk on Jan 15, 2017 12:07:35 GMT
(((((((Hugs Roonie))))))))
Is there anyway you and DH could get away for one night to just be together alone to have a nice meal and to discuss things and how to proceed without interruption from DS.
I totally get how hard it is and how your parenting styles differ, but if you don't get some alone time to discuss things in a more relaxed environment, things will only get worse and DS will split you both if he sees a chink in your armour. You both need to work together to back each other up and to be united in your approach before DS gets the upper hand. You need to talk to DH and agree some ground rules and that he should back you up in front of DS even if he doesn't entirely agree with what you are saying/doing. You can always discuss it later out of earshot of DS and hopefully come to a compromise for next time as DS needs to see you working as a team and giving him the same consistant message every time so he learns that mum and dad are in charge and not him.
Also as others have said already, book yourselves a babysitter and make sure you and DH have a date night at least once a month to look forward to. Go out and have a meal, drink, see a movie, whatever you want to do, but ban talking about DS on these nights out. Try and reconnect and remember what it was like pre children, what attracted you to each other in the first place, try and act as if you have just met and haven't a care in the world. Switch off from being parents for just one evening and try and spend some quality time together, you both deserve it and it may well help and give you both something to look forward to af least once a month.
Hope you get through today. Hope the relatives don't annoy you too much and if they start offering 'advice', ask if they could have DS for a sleepover. Let them experience how easy it is, first hand, it might help them understand that DS is not your average child and it might stop the critism .
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Post by flutterby on Jan 15, 2017 16:45:16 GMT
Roonie, a few months ago I was ready to split up. Something has changed inside me, I stopped wearing my wedding ring and felt like if there is still a chance for us DH would have to wow me back. Although it was a big IF and I was convinced that even if he "changed" it was probably too late anyway.
At the time we had been on a waiting list for family therapy. We have now had three sessions and so far only DH and I have gone as a couple. It has made the world of difference. I feel we have a future, instead of loathing him coming home, I miss him now when he is not home. And he is hardly ever here, because LO simply can't cope with family life.
We knew about it before, but being on better terms with each other and LO not being able to split us has made me realise that our main problem is we have lost our family through all the trauma that is inflicted on us on a daily basis. We have literally lost everything.
I would assume that you DH is desperately trying to cling on to his sanity by trying to pretend nothing has changed.
I wonder if you could do with some therapy. We accessed family therapy through our local CAHMS, they happen to be good here. Don't know where you live, but I'm sure there are some services available.
Really feel for you. Please don't let this split you up. It is what our kids do best. My LO cannot share me with anyone in the family. She is the most lovely child when I'm on my own with her. Just so long as all the attention is on her. I can give her 6 hours of solid play, entertainment, therapeutic play and the moment someone enters the house, not even the room, she turns into a different child. It is like Jekyll and Hyde. It's scary to watch, she becomes violent, controlling, full of rage.
I used to think my husband had the wrong approach, if only he did whatever, things would get better. But he is not a monster. He is a sane person, who is trying his best. Not perfect, but trying his best. And sadly with our kids sometimes nothing works when they're trying to split us.
Of course, some approaches are simply not suited to our kids and my husband is more prone to using these strategies and it winds me up watching him. You need to find a way to get across the mesagecthat yes, our LO needs to learn. But how is he going to do this? Are your strategies working? If not, what needs to change? It's no good saying is he must learn and then assume he will magically do so. You may need some input from someone outside your family. Have you got a children centre nearby? They can also give support and some of their parenting strategies are useful. Maybe you can agree with your husband that you will monitor parenting approaches/discipline together and how LO responds. Then rationally look at what works, what doesn't.
One more thing, sadly it is quite normal (not right though!)that us women still share the major burden of the traditional role of women. Sometimes hubbies need reminding by us stepping back and simply asking for help. And never assume he should know. Mine certainly wouldn't!
((Hugs, Roonie)) xx
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Post by runmum on Jan 15, 2017 19:53:02 GMT
You may not like your husband's behaviours or even feel like you like him but love is quite different. From my perspective it's more of a choice it's not actually about feelings it's about commitment and wanting the best for someone. You wanted the best for him once you probably still do it's just that parenting has driven a wedge. If it is really just the parenting that has driven the wedge I doubt that splitting up is really the right thing. Rundad and I are trying to work through a marriage book together one lunchtime each week when we both work at home. Just as a way to remind each other how we really feel in the quagmire of all the rubbish we have to deal with in terms of parenting. We figured we've read enough parenting books we should do something for us because that will actually do something for them anyway. Interestingly Rundad has tried harder to engage positively with the kids since he's getting some positive engagement with me. We are using 7 principles for making marriage work. Hugs!!!!
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Post by mudlark on Jan 15, 2017 22:47:17 GMT
No one mentioned on the pre adoption courses that parenting adopted children could end your marriage. But that's what it feels like at times. The stress of parenting traumatized kids is huge and it tests us in ways we never imagined and reveals sides to your husband or wife you never knew about. It might mean that you are the more capable, organised, empathetic parent. It might reveal you have no patience, are conflict averse and believe in discipline over empathy. But these are not reasons to split up. They are reasons to get some help, either from a third party or help yourselves by creating space to be honest with each other. Don't give up yet. Your husband may need some help in understanding what you are feeling. Try and remember how you used to talk, find something you enjoyed together and go and do it. Remembering to smile and laugh with one another is a huge help.
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Post by daffin on Jan 16, 2017 23:01:00 GMT
DH and I had a long discussion about the state of our marriage this evening, We had fraught discussions/arguments over Christmas and my DH has had flu since, so it hasn't been the right time to resolve things/ finish the discussion.
The bottom line is that we are both exhausted from living with Monkey Boy and his antagonistic behaviour winds us both up, so that despite ourselves we get angry and that anger infuses our interactions with each other. We are both sad, depressed and not enjoying life. How can you greet someone with joy, and make them feel special when you feel worn out and as though life is a slog.
We don't have any quick solutions but we're going to try to use some of our new Care and Support worker's hours so we can garden together sometimes at the weekend. Fresh air. Simple pleasures.
Talking has to be good though. I might follow Run Mum's lead and work through a book with DH, too!
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Jan 17, 2017 17:49:22 GMT
Ladies you are all great and I am so lucky to have your advice! Our Sunday progressed and the sadness lifted, I think like daffin we are just sad and exhausted with so little to give on another. We have both held our hands up that we probably have some form of compassion fatigue. I am hopeful that our meeting with post adoption in march will help with support and give us some strategies we can both get on board with which might help the division and give us some family therapy as flutterby suggests. I agree dh is trying to cling to normality and I admit I am probably the other end of the spectrum in that I am constantly reading into behaviours and trying to foresee meltdowns etc. It doesn't help that family see no issues it's the classic all kids do that, there is nothing wrong with him etc etc and are all about our son and dismissive of us, classic was on Sunday when my mum who is great with our son and he loves her decided that as we were trying to wind hi, down she would play hiding under the blanket and playing madly when our son was clearly tired and needed to start winding down, I snapped at her in the end and replied when she told me it's what grandparents do that perhaps she should refer back to the grandparent prep course she went on with out la that highlighted how important it was to support the adopters and not just the child!!
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Post by topcat on Jan 18, 2017 8:53:37 GMT
Will your DS sleep over at your mum's? Sounds like she would be up for it and if not, start working up to it so you and DH can have a quality evening together.
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roonie
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Post by roonie on Jan 19, 2017 7:40:41 GMT
Topcat yes he would we actually did have a night off at the end of December and he slept there so we are planning again this Saturday as it's very needed! I think I will make a rule that heavy talk around our ds is banned! X
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I bet he already knows about private parts from nursery/ school, hence the pink face.
