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Post by chocolatedog on Nov 26, 2013 22:11:03 GMT
I was watching junior at his school Christmas Play rehearsals today - constant moving, fidgeting, silly giggles, making clicking noises (no, he's not autistic, for those of you who don't know). I was wondering about the self permanence issues? Would that account for the constant need to be moving around and making some kind of noise to show that they still exist, so to speak? I'm guessing the low level days regulated Mr Silly stuff is to do with break in normal school structure and routine, and he doesn't cope well with being bored, but it's difficult and upsetting to watch him not coping.......  |
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thespouses
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Post by thespouses on Nov 27, 2013 4:53:04 GMT
I have not heard of this concept but it sounds a bit mad to me (I know a lot about object permanence!)
However children who are struggling to stay awake or alert often use this kind of thing to keep themselves awake, and it can be an ADHD trait if either of those are an issue?
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Post by smileycat on Nov 27, 2013 9:04:09 GMT
Sounds a lot like my Spud, who also doesn't have autism but is never still or quiet and only sleeps (sort of) thanks to melatonin...
I think we will end up with an ADHD diagnosis, but given the amount of alcohol his birth mother drank while pregnant I'm thinking it's because he's FASD.
Spud also has massive sensory issues which are much worse in bright, busy, noisy places, the input is too much so he has to 'out put it' by being busy.... I wonder if that's what was going on for your LO???
My DD used to bellow at the top of her lungs when she couldn't see me in a v different way which I always thought was object permanence but never did it at other times.
What ever the root cause I agree, it's v hard to see your LO struggling...
I was looking at my two last night when they were asleep and thinking how sad that they went through so much before coming to us...
Best wishes,
SC x x
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Post by damson on Nov 27, 2013 9:52:29 GMT
This reminds me of my DS and his primary school plays. I am sure it was the lack of routine, plus there was just way too much sitting about.
I agree, your LO was almost certainly bored, and probably very excited that you were there in the audience. I remember looking at my squirrel-like boy and then looking round and seeing other equally twitchy kids whose parents were busy waving back. Don't be too hard on yourself here, it's just brilliant he is there amongst all the other kids and he's your little star. (Primary school Christmas plays were the one thing that actually made me suddenly teary at being a mum to my special kids.)
I am sure that somewhere there is a thread on 'Christmas and the manic adopted child'. I used to find the pressure grew as November drew to an end, as there were so many parties, cards, lunches, food, presents, relatives and difficult memories.
However, more generally on the topic of tics, my DS still has them as a teenager. They range from clicking his fingers to a sort of odd whistle, to tossing things about as he talks. I think it is self soothing, and although it sounds very odd, it means he keeps himself regulated. It is still much harder for him to stand still when he is having a demanding conversation - he is better off moving about.
He likes to have something to fiddle with as he talks or thinks. It gets DH down, but I mostly ignore it.
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Post by chocolatedog on Nov 27, 2013 13:42:25 GMT
The spouses - object/self permanence is mentioned by Holly van Gulden as a very important part of early infant development - see her books on attachment etc . She also has a PDF called The Stable Child. Junior's problems and traumas were all in very early infancy......
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thespouses
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Post by thespouses on Nov 27, 2013 20:44:41 GMT
I do know a LOT about early infant development and attachment through my work. And I have never heard of this, I suspect it is made up.
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dinky
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Post by dinky on Nov 27, 2013 20:55:03 GMT
My DS is exactly the same - silly faces, noises, turning around etc. etc. and it is upsetting as he obviously can't relax and enjoy what is happening  I once asked him how he felt when at school and he was supposed to be sitting quietly his reply was that he felt as if he was going to disappear into the ground and that nobody would find him I think it is a sort of permanance type thing as he doesn't feel connected to the world and therefore that anybody knows he is there if he is not moving / making a noise when he is in a situation that stresses him. If he is nicely relaxed at home it doesn't happen - he even stops talking for half an hour every now and then  Dinky xx |
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Post by oogleschnook on Nov 27, 2013 21:06:09 GMT
I've heard of this, I think as a sensory issue in a lot of kids, sometimes linked into ADHD or ASD, sometimes not.
They don't have good awareness of their body in space (proprioception??) and so like Dinky says need to keep shuffling about to get some sensory feedback so they know they're still there.
Often things like knobbly cushions etc. can help as can things to fidget with so they get more sensory feedback.
I think OTs can help with this, certainly CAMHS OTs locally do sensory assessments and can supply stuff, otherwise I think you can get the cushions etc. yourself if school are willing to try.
Agree with Damson though, school at this time of year is mad even for the most regulated of kids....
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thespouses
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Post by thespouses on Nov 28, 2013 12:03:17 GMT
Proprioception is something else entirely - nothing to do with permanence.
But that may be a good reason for fidgeting as you'd get more feedback if you fidgeted than if you didn't. It doesn't mean they don't know they're there - it would help with balance, knowing how not to knock things over, that kind of thing. That's what proprioception does.
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