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Post by kizim on Nov 24, 2013 23:37:28 GMT
Hi All İ am at a loss how to control my 17 yr old daughter...and of course it is having a negative impact on her 13 yr old sister. My dd is not capable of following the simplest house rules - but maybe the rules are too much for her? Because of her behaviour this summer - running away x3 /lying/secret fb/dodgy friends etc we agreed on ways that would help my dd control herself and achieve her goals and would help our peace of mind. This included us having her fb password, replacing her internet phone with an ordinary phone ( technology played a big part in her double life), no sleepovers altho friends were welcome to sleepover here. Try to be honest. Regular sessions with counsellor...but its just not possible for her to comply with any of these. İn the last 2 weeks we have discovered a secret phone . many very silly lies and last night - after kissing hb and taking pictures of him - she went into her room to watch a film and whilst he made her popcorn, she set up another secret fb page because she waa angry that we are able to monitör her - even tho we hadn't exercised that right and had told her that only if we felt she was at risk would we check her devices. İt's always a shock when she acts out because she is so passive aggressive that there is no indication of her true feelings. She is always contrite and 'can't believe what she has done'...but very quickly forgets her remorse and starts over again.
İ can't take any more of this merrygoround and feel all our efforts are futile . İ feel like we have 2 options...both of them extreme..the first is to give her full control of her life.altho this has failed in the past too...but this time let her face the consequences. The second is to take over complete control in the hope that taking her out of circulation for a while might give her time to reconsider her future.
The first option would satisfy her initially but she has a hedonistic streak plus an inner emptiness that is bound to get her into trouble and it will be very difficult to stand back and watch.
The second would require full time supervision. We live in the countryside and İ am working from home this year. İ am a teacher and she could finish her studies..something she really wants. She has recently found God and hopes this will save her altho she has done very little towards this. İ can recruit the local religious leader to help counsel her (its not my religion). Lots of walking th dogs and working in the garden and visiting with family...but is that fair on her? İts certainly not fair on me as İ am really enjoying my space and time alone but would being at home help her? Has anyone tried this? İ feel times running out...or am İ over reacting?
Sorry for the looooong post
Jofran
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Post by moo on Nov 25, 2013 6:20:12 GMT
Hey you sound so miserable.... I am sad for you you have obviously tried so very hard & done your best for dd... Teenage stuff is such a minefield....
I have no real concrete advice for you as my two are way off teenage angst right now ( oh wow tho my turn will come )
I just want to offer you support & hugs {{{}}}... Sending you cyber chocolate & coping juice xx
The wise ones will be along soon I am sure they will as ever have real pearls of wisdom....
Hang in & please keep checking in......
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by kizim on Nov 25, 2013 7:08:49 GMT
Thanks Moo...those cyber hugs and choc are much appreciated. She has göne off to work with her dad this morning...and seemed to be delighted İ gave her a notebook and asked her to reflect and record what she has done..İ also found something she had written this time last year after another series of 'events'. She commented on how lost, juvenile and sad the contents were - and that there was very little truth.
One strength she has is she is very organised and a hard working student with the goal to go to uni - altho she doesn't really have a goal or course in mind other than languages. My gut feeling this morning is to keep her home but İ am not sure if that is just my protective mother feeling plus making my life easier in some ways. Confused mum living with the confusing/confused dd
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 7:37:00 GMT
Not sure that I have any advice to give kizim as I am only entering the teen world with my two, but reading your post you say DD is a hard working student with a goal to go to uni, I wonder if going to a weekly boarding school would help? She would be supervised and hopefully not be able to use FB? It would give you a break during the week and you could keep an eye on her at the weekends? Just a thought as I have no other advice to offer, but I will be reading others replies, as I'm sure I will be in this situation myself very soon.
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Nov 25, 2013 9:27:30 GMT
Sorry, No advice, but I can relate to the rejecting of rules. My ED, only 13, but I think she will be like this. They are just starting to go out without me, and she doesn't grasp that when I ring her she needs to answer and not hang up on me. Out in the dark and I don't know here they are. She's set up a FB acct, and is adamant that she won't let me be her friend, - (she has dodgy social skills and I'd like to check her appropriateness).
I don't think your 2nd scenario would work with my dd, - I think it would push her away more and more. For me, I think your first option is best (but horrifyingly scary). Could you write all the things that you are worried about, - might it maybe stick more if if was written (and lovingly). I sometimes feel that waiting til she is in a receptive mood, and then talking about stuff my dd really doesn't want to talk about, can just ruin a potentially good opportunity for some honest chat. Or, given that she is studious, is there a teacher that you could enlist for support? Re keeping her home. My girls are at special school, and for me one of the real advantages is that they are not surrounded by lots of children with matching chronological/emotional ages. This is allowing them, I think, to mature at their own pace rather than the pace that is deemed right by their peers. Maybe by keeping her home (would she agree or would she run?) would allow her to catch up emotionally?
All difficult decisions, - good luck.
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Post by kizim on Nov 25, 2013 10:40:54 GMT
Boarding school isnt really an option here in Turkey and İ am not sure it would help...she has a real anxious attachment to me despite the running away. When we moved to our new home last year we built her her own studio apartment - just 5 metres from our door becuase she seemed to want more control of her life - but since the summer she has requested sharing with her sister. She knows she needs to feel close but at the same time she likes to have a double life which is growing increasingly dangerous - she has been quite promiscuous in a sad sort of way/ putting herself in unsafe situations - İ just want to get her thru these years without her doing anything which will have consquences for her future. She is still studying - that isnt the problem and she does see a school guidance counsellor regularly but nothing seems to stop her. İm interested to read about your dd and fb Littlemiss * that makes me feel over strict. İ have always insisted on having fb passwords. Eldest dd did have control but abused it badly...as she did her föne. Maybe we have overreacted by removing this control? All it seems to have resulted in is in her getting an secret föne and fb which is what has caused the latest upset. Added to this our business did badly this season - some of it because we lost our chef (DD was leaving house at night to spend time with him - she ran away when we and her bf found out) and because we were constantly running after her so Money is very tight right now which doesn't help...
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Nov 25, 2013 10:50:58 GMT
Just to say, I don't think you're being too strict re fb. Without wanting to hijack your thread, I need to get some control of our situation, but don't want to go down the confiscation route - am trying to think of another way of getting some control back. I have said that it is an acceptable rule of parents that they are friends of their teenagers, but she hates feeling like I can check up on her.
Interesting that your dd wanted her own space, and then came back into the fold. She sounds confused - again similar to my dd, - what she wants vs what she needs (sounds like your dd knows she needs you more than she wants you, iykwim).
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Post by kizim on Nov 25, 2013 11:08:51 GMT
Regarding fb İ stopped being a friend on eldest dd's fb as it became uncoolio...butshe had to share the password with me and Show me her page when İ asked. This is not a problem for my 13yr old...and not a problem for the 17yr old either - becuase for the last 2 years she had a secret fb page that İ was blcked from - she is a real pass/agg and nearly always very compliant - to my face
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Post by jollymummy on Nov 25, 2013 17:03:24 GMT
Hi Kizim - your daughter's behaviour is EXACTLY the same as my 15 year olds'. Like you, my daughter is academic and capable to going to uni. But she has missed so much school not sure that she will achieve it at the usual age (i.e. with her peers).
Unfortunately we had to make the decision to have her accommodated at a residential school (S20 order) as we didn't think she could keep herself safe. And the only way that I could keep her safe was to be with her 24 hours a day which is not practical nor desirable.
During the 7 months she spent at an adolescent mental health unit we only had one or two successful weekend home visits. (By successful I mean no early return/ no overdose/no running away/no getting arrested). She was twice arrested for carrying an offensive weapon so that she could kill a local boy (fortunately charges were eventually dropped).
I don't really know what to suggest. Being as controlling as you suggest might backfire quite badly, but I understand how you feel you might have to resort to that.
Interestingly, both my daughters have expressed an interest in going to church. I think they are trying to fill a void. We are not religious but I am supporting them in this.
So no constructive advice I'm afraid - just an acknowledgement that you are not alone. xx
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Post by shadow on Nov 25, 2013 18:17:37 GMT
mine is out of control and never leaves the house - what she can manage in her bedroom is fairly spectacular - she is about to go into a residential care home for young people with MH problems - as one lovely SW said today - she needs a whole team caring for her night and day
so we should all feel proud we have been doing the work of teams of people
hope you can find an option for her - I hope the religious community can help her - and maybe help you as well
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Post by phoebe on Nov 25, 2013 19:01:02 GMT
Hi kizim, sorry you're going through this now. It's so wearing isn't it? From your post, there are a few things going on. She is starting to fear that you can't always be there for her, and frightened that she can't manage herself. She wants freedom but is also terrified of it. This is making her dysregulated, so she is constantly operating in the limbic system, just responding to feelings, not doing any thinking. It's tough to get through this. I think the best thing is to go right back to basics, and try to do lots of sensory stuff with her. I suspect she is hankering after a bit of regression but is maybe unsure how to ask? I'd try and do little "baby moments" with her, several times in the day. Maybe your voice, some special food she used to love you could feed to her? She needs to have her sensory objects close all the time - does she have a comforter? one of your hankies with perfume on? Your photo? The FB thing can't really be stopped - believe me I have tried - but you can keep an eye by having a false identity account to track what she's doing, so you are armed! The need to run is again the stress response, so you can only avoid it if she never gets that stressed - almost impossible! You can only reinforce all your attachment work and really push the constancy /permanency bits. Maybe you can talk about how you will be involved in the future parts of her life? It will be very softly softly and very slow. Best wishes. x
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Post by shadow on Nov 25, 2013 20:04:46 GMT
thing with facebook is they can make other e mail addresses and accounts you know nothing about - you think you are seeing what they do - but there is a whole secret life
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enid
Bronze Member
Single Adopter
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Post by enid on Nov 25, 2013 21:55:25 GMT
that's so true shadow, my 15 yr old daughter is "friends" with all the family, there are lots of us, but that was only ONE account, she had another one, its so flipping wearing facebook, causes so many rows in our house.
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Post by peartree on Nov 25, 2013 22:56:50 GMT
The face book thing here just doesn't work There's the slightest chance of deceit and so both of our ac will leap at it Even when you get on her page with password She can delete messages etc The bottom line is that you have to trust her You cannot trust who is not trustworthy
Lovely that they're academic but it seems that emotionally she's poorly developed and hasn't worked out that she will be caught and is shooting herself in the foot by destroying trust
My advice, is to step back as much as you're able then step back more She will be 18 next yr and you will be able to do nothing to control her So If they lie to your face be pleased at least she's spoken to you- a relationship however carppy is better than not being spoken to- she cares what you think- hence hiding it from you I've been teaching partridge now 18 about negotiations and his care for how we feel
In a way your dd cares deeply what you feel She's cheesed off at you- why should she do that hiding stuff? She knows it's tied up with your feelings. Push me pull you teenage style
I've tried recently doing planning towards independence and demonstrating trustworthiness and getting negotiated ways ahead I hate hate hate being lied to like an idiot It chews your soul!
But I have told partridge I've caught him lying again, I don't hold much truck with the denials and making out his lies are someone else's (usually my) fault so I just say- this was a poor choice. If you could try and talk to me before we could have worked something out together. Wish that things were better but maybe at 18, the amount of improvement he's likely to make at this point is limited
Does dd accept she has special emotional needs?
At 17 partridge started seeing a chiropractor to help with his posture and it really started him on the road to accepting a little help on the way towards independence
Having said that I've asked college to share with us things because is he feels his lies are out of control and then he's out if control and he gets a bit bonkers and has in the past ended up abroad Hoping not to use it but it's honestly to help him not go bananas at the end of term when he's lied about having done his work and has 6 assignments to do in 2 days.....
I've got to work on accepting that he may flunk college He's living the course etc But can he hold on? Not sure I've offered what I can but if he fails the course- he'll have failed the course We still have a relationship however strained and he'll need us of course But it's a right mess when they lie And painful too xx
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Post by kizim on Nov 26, 2013 6:45:36 GMT
Thanks Peartree. İ'm going to read this a few times more...and think before İ respond. Just one thing - you mentioned Partrige's posture. My dd gets very round shouldered when she is feeling low self esteem- sometimes its a physical cue that she is about to go off the rails.
İ really deeply appreciate all of you taking the time to give such insightful responses. İf İ don't always reciprocate it's because İ don' always feel very sure of myself...but İ used to.
Jofran
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Post by damson on Nov 26, 2013 9:26:44 GMT
18 is such a notional age for adulthood, isn't it? Especially when they are still small inside. Trouble is, attention is attention, and the enthusiasm for DDs adolescent body by interested young men is such a lure. It's like eating white bread with a thick layer of honey on - I know it doesn't help but it feels great at the time, LOL. The lying is post hoc cover up of impulsive void filling.
It's going to take my own DD some extra years to reach the point of emotional competance to go to Uni, if that is what she wants to do. Like Peartree, I have been coming to terms with the reality that our teenagers may flunk their courses if their emotional grounding isn't solid enough. Uni is so expensive that picking the wrong course, or maybe just failing to get out of bed and go to lectures, is financially crippling. More to the point, she could be working, figuring out what she thinks is important in life, making friends or being a prat on a smaller, less damaging scale.
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Post by kizim on Dec 2, 2013 7:25:17 GMT
Hi all, A cooling off period and the very helpful comments on this thread have helped me to see a very narrow path through the chaos of our lives.
Regarding fb - İ have given her back control, said how İ would wish her to behave on fb abd other sites she may have Access too....and left her to it.. Typically, she the started asking, 'is it ok if İ add this person'...hb took the bait and started giving his opinion but İ cut in and told her to decide for herself (previously she would always ask this but secretly add others - why bother)
İ focused on my dd's academic life because İ hope she will be able to transfer these skills into other areas of her life because they are very valuable skills and Show me that in many ways she is more mature than her peers. Not her academic ability - which is largely average apart from her languages - but her organisation and motivation in how she approaches studying. İ never have to ask dd to get up/do homework/revişe/be prepared. She gets up at 6 every day, driver her scooter down to the village; comes home at 5, studies, helps me, showers, reads, sleeps early having organised all her materials. Her teachers and the Head have nothing but praise for her commenting that although she may not have the highest scores she Works harder and takes more responsibility than her peers. We also live in a rural seaside area which is fairly dead wintertime and she copes very well with this too. İ think its this responsible, caring, carefuldd suddenly changing...or coexisting alongside this irresponsible, cold, selfish, risk taker that throws us...every time!
We have discussed that uni will not be nest year for her and she agrees. She wants to work and grow up a little more first. She does accept that she has problems and she is trying to put in more self controls. Scarily she said that she wants to be a mother...not yet ?İ squeaked....but she said in the future...phew...but that she wants her body or mind to be ready to give her baby the perfect start in life that her bmum denied her - so no promiscuity, smoking, chaos. İ suggested that she stop giving MY Baby (her) a hard stressful life!
İ agree with some of what Phoebe67 wrote I suspect she is hankering after a bit of regression but is maybe unsure how to ask? I'd try and do little "baby moments" with her, several times in the day. Maybe your voice, some special food she used to love you could feed to her? She needs to have her sensory objects close all the time - does she have a comforter? one of your hankies with perfume on? Your photo? - İ forgot that İ used to do these and have looked at ways we can reintroduce them.
İ hate the lying too Peartree and how we go from having a close loving relationship to feeling like İ have been foold and have lost everything...this makes me overreact and does not help either of us. My hb is even stricter but she responds to him much better ---İ think İ need to step back some more as yoıu advised.
İ will make the house rules clear - goingmad - and TRY not to feel guilty but that's one of my issues .
İ would love to hear more from you all on life with adopted teens. My youngest is now 13 and İ dread going thru all this a second time!!!!
Jofran xx
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