dinky
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Post by dinky on Nov 22, 2013 18:42:42 GMT
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Post by esty (archive) on Nov 22, 2013 18:57:43 GMT
Not surprised you are manic! I find it unbelievable how 'Education' just doesn't get it!
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Post by sooz on Nov 22, 2013 19:10:06 GMT
Oh dear. Ds head butted another child when he was in reception, child had to go home with nose bleed and headache! his teacher told me they had agreed he would not have any computer time at home for a week. I didn't say anything at the time but ds never went on the computer (very clever of him to agree to that punishment) but I wrote a letter stating that I had spoken with ds and we'd agreed to make a sorry card but not allowing computer time wasn't going to have any effect and I would be happy to come in and discuss how this situation could be avoided in the future. From that it was agreed ds needed monitoring more closely and any potential for violence be headed off before the situation escalated. It worked (mostly). No amount of sanction or rewards given at home would stop ds when he's lost any impulse control. I'm a very controlled, polite and reasonable person, but, put me in a car and some numpty cuts me up I'm likely to act first and think later, I see it as much the same thing and I don't think a sticker chart or similar incentive is going to stop me in my tracks in the moment. Ps... I don't get violent but maybe a bit verbal and a few hand signals, you get the picture lol
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dinky
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Post by dinky on Nov 22, 2013 20:59:24 GMT
Esty & Sooz - Thank you both for understanding Sooz - your DS sounds very much like mine You also reminded me to check what it says on DS's IEP - and it quite clearly states that he needs close supervision at break times and help to manage his behaviour and his reactions to situations. Think I will have to refresh their memories on what they are supposed to be doing;) Your DS acceptance of his "no computer time" as punishment also reminds me of my DS as his school do a lot of "you must stay with the teacher at break" as, I presume, a shaming type punishment (unaware that it is exactly what DS needs to make him feel safe) of course DS loves this and always greats it with joy and big smiles (cue some very confused teachers ) Esty - I don't know why 'Education' doesn't get it either - they must have had at least a trees worth of paper from me explaining things (given up printing stuff off for them now - I just email it instead and check it has been received ) Dinky
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Post by serrakunda on Nov 22, 2013 23:30:59 GMT
is that a sticker chart for how often he punches someone you could suggest he does a sticker chart at school and then he could see why it doesnt work. do you ever think about what solutions they offered before self adhesives were invented, othewise known as BS ( before stickers of course) Good luck
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Post by sooz on Nov 23, 2013 9:56:39 GMT
Ooh good one tokoloshe, give them a sticker chart for each day they manage to not allow your ds to lash out xx
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Post by moo on Nov 23, 2013 10:28:24 GMT
This constant battle with school just does my head in
How seemingly intelligent child centred educated people get it so very very wrong is constantly beyond me....
Why is the "punishment " supposed to be administered at home where clearly the 'offence ' would not have happened anyway!! These ' crimes against humanity ' always seem to happen when coping strategys are not being followed!!!
Love Toko suggestion wish I had the bottle to start one... ( would they ever get more than one tho!!! )
Sooz your example is SPOT on!!! Never thought of that before but sooo in ' the zone '....
Xx. moo. Xx
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dinky
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Post by dinky on Nov 23, 2013 10:52:01 GMT
DS is doing well this week then Serrakunda if we go on a sticker everytime he hits someone as this was the second incident this week (that I am aware of) Do like the idea of a sticker chart for school or shall we do happy and sad faces? I must admit that on the whole this school is quite good and they do try and get it and put the right things in place. However, I think they are relaxing a bit at the moment without realising it and of course it is coming back to bit them on the behind! I also think that this years teachers, although they are trying to deal with him in a therapeutic way, don't really get it. They were a little bemused at parents evening when they told me about a minor incident where DS had burped in a childs face because he didn't like what they said. I was sat there smiling and thinking "yeah progress, he didn't him them" and they wanted me to talk to him about why he shouldn't do that Dinky - shortly off to help at the school christmas fair with the mother of the child he hit (wish me luck!)
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Post by sooz on Nov 23, 2013 14:09:05 GMT
Good luck lol.
Actually school are pretty good with my ds. When his lsa came out to me all smiles saying ds had said to her today that he was really angry with her we both laughed and cheered as we recognised what a step forward it was, only in our world hey? Lol x
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 23, 2013 15:24:11 GMT
Sorry to read this dinky.
Why do schools feel the need to punish any children let alone our traumatised kids for same misdemeanour twice, at school then at home?
Last term Bert and his friends were taken to the Head for a 20 minute talking to about fighting games straight after lunch, they then went into assembly and she called them back in for another 20 mins. and suggested we address matter at home too. School is a major source of anxiety for Bert and we try to keep things as seperate as possible, at start of school holidays uniform and school bags,lunchboxes etc are ceremoniously put away. School needs to listen to what we know will work for our children. When we have explained that at 8 years he is functioning emotionally and behaviorly at half that age, and used the Think Toddler explanation, his teacher laughed in our face.
As for sticker charts, Bert loves stickers but doesn't understand consequences and his low self esteem just re enforces a sense of shame and failure if he fails to reach the target set. He too is impulsive but controlling so doesn't think before acting, red mist is there and bam, he's in trouble. Bert is more likely to take the stickers and decorate our landing and his bedroom with the darn things when we think he is asleep.
Hope the meeting is productive on Monday x
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Post by kstar on Nov 27, 2013 0:25:23 GMT
Sorry but I can't actually sit here and read so much criticism of schools without defending us!!!! I have been a teacher for 15 years, am a pastoral leader and consider myself to be very clued up and willing to walk through fire for my kids BUT:
- I had never heard the word attachment until I started the adoption process. I have still never heard it in an educational context apart from the materials I have developed for our school. My best friend runs a nursery, Ofsted outstanding and rated extremely highly by all concerned... She has a very basic grasp of attachment in "normal" family situations but has also had no specialist training in dealing with attachment issues. She tries really hard to "get it" with Starlet but still doesn't.
- I know there are many sectors under the same pressure, but teachers are seriously overworked and over stressed. Unfortunately, every single minute of our day revolves around what Ofsted expects or what will improve our exam results, firstly because the management drive us so hard on them we're all too worried not to do it, and secondly because in these ridiculous days of league tables, our jobs depend on what Ofsted say... However much we love our job and the kids we work with, none of us will put our own necks on the chopping block (we are an oversubscribed, outstanding secondary and have had 10 redundancies in the last two years! which is 10% of our teaching staff. Trust me, if Ofsted made attachment issues part of their carping framework, we'd all be doing it all day. My advice would be to find a way to get your child to qualify for free school meals - we can't jump through enough Ofsted hoops about FSM at the moment, those kids get whatever we can throw at them, way beyond what the pupil premium pays for.
- with increasingly poor engagement and poor parenting in many families, these children end up being a priority as without us they wouldn't have any parenting at all. Those from good, hardworking, clued up parents do get neglected because we don't worry about them as much.
- I consider myself to be one of those "seemingly intelligent child centered people" who went into teaching for the right reasons, but some days I barely have the patience to be therapeutic with Starlet, let alone with the 200 or so kids I come into contact with on a daily basis. I'll be honest - with a lot of them, I barely even know their names when they're in front of me, let alone their individual needs and the best way to deal with them. We end up having to default to a one size fits all way of doing things.
I know it isn't what you want to hear and I know it's not right in all cases, but the vast majority of teachers are hardworking,caring people... We just don't get time to do the job anymore because we can't see the kids and their needs through the forest of red tape surrounding them.
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Post by phoebe on Nov 27, 2013 1:20:41 GMT
Whilst I agree with a good deal of What kstar posted, I do have to take issue with the idea that all parents whose children are on FSM are poor at parenting and not hardworking. As a teacher with 20 years experience, and a National insurance payer for 29 of my 46 years, I just have to say that i am working as hard now as I ever did when I was teaching full time. Like many other carers my duties are 24/7. Like many other carers I am clued up and I try very hard to engage with school. Sadly they are not able to reciprocate. Despite my constant attempts to explain attachment and trauma to fellow professionals, my two children continue to receive a very low quality educational experience, causing them to under achieve academically and socially. The information that all teachers need is available easily in the public forum, there is even a shiny award for Attachment Aware schools, which Bath Spa University are leading. The fact is though, children with additional needs are viewed as a potential threat to OFSTED success, and so they are onto a loser! Hence so may SEN pupils are excluded, hence so ,many SEN pupils drop out of school early, hence so many LAC and SEN pupils don't get 5 GCSEs. Fact is, they are not a priority for our society, so Government don't make them a priority. Otherwise Gove would not be getting away with his massacre of SEN provision. If these children were a priority, we would be able to have them educated in a local school, not have to ship them half way across the country to find someone with a bit of an inkling on how to make them feel safe!
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Post by sooz on Nov 27, 2013 14:09:54 GMT
My ds gets fsm, but reading kstars post I didn't take it as fsm equals poor parenting, but a separate issue. It's taken me a long while to get to understand my ds so I don't expect all his teachers to get it especially when they have lots of other kids to consider too. I think for me, it's about the willingness to listen and adapt where possible. It's a difficult job, no doubt about it, I don't think I'd manage it!
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Post by kstar on Nov 27, 2013 20:52:13 GMT
Sorry if I offended you Phoebe67, as sooz said I intended those to be read as two different issues. Much of the disgraceful lack of parenting we see is in families with two professional parents, "cash rich time poor" kids as we call them. I was always on FSM myself and would never want to give the impression I think poorly of FSM students or their families!! The point there was the FSM students are one of Ofsted's main bug bears so they do get a lot of attention ATM, whereas LAC and ex-LAC don't!
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dinky
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Post by dinky on Nov 27, 2013 21:25:20 GMT
Thought I would give you all an update after my meeting which didn't happen until today due to one thing and another! New head is fab and I can stop panicing that we are going to return to the dark days of DS's previous school (big sigh of relief) where they wouldn't listen (even to our SW) about the best way to deal with DS and his behaviours etc. She had even read his file before meeting me (big improvement on the new head at the previous school who I met under similar circumstances and hadn't bothered!) She is obviously very much a nurturing type person and has already decided to get more staff out in the playground, nuture groups, organised games up and running etc. She had also had opportunity to teach DS this morning and had picked up on a couple of his "quirks". She also asked me to let her have anything I have got on attachment etc which she would like to make sure that ALL staff read so I have duly emailed it over tonight (well not everything I have got - just a few choice bits to start with ). All in all a very happy, relieved Dinky with real hope for DS's happiness at this school
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Post by phoebe on Nov 27, 2013 21:39:07 GMT
Thanks everyone, was very tired when I conflated the separate points in Kstar's post! Glad I am not a pariah! lol x
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Post by Ad-minnie! on Nov 27, 2013 21:45:14 GMT
Dinky, That sounds really positive. And no mention of any sticker charts???!!! <--- Hooray!!! I hope the meeting with a head is an indication of the school really getting on board and helping your DS be happy in school Minnie x
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dinky
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Post by dinky on Nov 27, 2013 22:46:44 GMT
Thank you Minnie, I'll keep my fingers crossed for a little while just in case Actually sticker charts were mentioned but in a way that DS can cope with (as he does like his stickers ) i.e...... - It is only "in school" - so if he doesn't get the stickers we don't know and therefore his "shame" is more manageable for him
- He gets a sticker for anything and everything to start with (saying morning politely, sitting still for 2 mins, writing 2 sentences, helping to put books out etc. etc.)
This was used at his old school for a while and it does seem to work as at the very least it helps to keep his mood up which in turn means he is likely to be more co-operative and to try and do as asked which also helps with the playground as he is not going out at break already stressed and grumpy!
Head also seemed to really get that everything needs to be done in tiny, teeny steps and that each one (or half of one) in the right direction needs to be recognised
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Post by kstar on Nov 28, 2013 21:56:21 GMT
Phoebe, I think you''very forgotten where you are haha - there may be some boards where people would be made a social pariah for daring to misread a very rambling post, but not here!!!
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