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Post by abiee on Nov 20, 2013 22:29:39 GMT
We get melatonin prescribed but I have read on here that some of you are not able to get it prescribed any more How do you know you are buying from a reputable source on-line I am getting worried that our paed will stop prescribing or, as she is due to retire soon, the new paed may not prescribe
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thespouses
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Post by thespouses on Nov 21, 2013 11:10:40 GMT
I buy melatonin when I'm in N. America for work/holiday as it's available OTC there. You need to be careful of the dose as the bottles they sell are widely different in dose, and (at least as an adult who uses it to get over jetlag) different people need different doses. I buy the lowest dose I can get and sometimes I only need half a tablet - so I wouldn't be surprised if children need very small doses. I have been reading about this on the NICE website out of interest and: The melatonin that you are probably getting is licensed for older adults, but it is "off label" for children. It sounds like this one is slow-release. The melatonin that you'll get online is unlicensed i.e. it's not licensed for a different group or disorder - it's not licensed AT ALL. And it's not likely that it will be slow release. It says there's no evidence it's any use beyond a day or two for sleep disorders as nobody has tested it. It seems that some people use it for ADHD too and that's been looked at in the medium term but it's hard to say if it's safe in the long term. I'd be a bit wary of unprescribed melatonin in the long term for children. It sounds like one important difference too is the type of tablet - if you aren't getting slow release tablets, it may not keep your child asleep in the same way (my drugstore melatonin also sends me to sleep but doesn't really keep me asleep). I use that for a few days when I'm really struggling, and as the link shows that's how they've tested unlicensed melatonin for children with sleep disorders - rather than over months or even over weeks to be honest. NICE guidance
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louie
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Post by louie on Nov 21, 2013 11:37:22 GMT
Certainly the melatonin my eldest has from his Paed is slow release. I hadn't realised people were not able to get it prescribed anymore, that would cause us massive problems. I too would be very worried about buying off the internet.
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Post by abiee on Nov 21, 2013 12:08:31 GMT
we have the medicine prescribed so that is not slow release It is true that it doesnt keep DD asleep but we were regularly taking 3-4 hours to get to sleep with massive anxiety during that time. I am so happy to have (most) of my evenings back to a more normal set-up
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Post by donatella on Nov 21, 2013 12:38:19 GMT
I'm in this position and whilst I understand the concerns, my overriding concern is for my sons safety. I would much prefer to have it safely prescribed but it seems that it's no longer an option and so I have to balance everything out.
No melatonin = very little sleep. It also means alarms on doors to stop him wandering in the night. It means lockdown. It means reverting to not coping in school because hes knackered. It means horrendous mornings trying to get him ready for school.
My son needs immediate release melatonin. Getting him to sleep is the problem. He has ADHD and takes Ritalin. What seemed utterly perverse to me was that his psych wanted to up his dosage of Ritalin - not necessary - but not prescribe melatonin. The excuse was 'hormones' but in reality it's a cost issue.
And so, for quality of life, we've no option other than to obtain on line.
I understand the pros and cons but unless you live with a non sleeping child and the risks that accompany that then you've no idea.
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 21, 2013 13:13:21 GMT
I am interested to hear this as although we are struggling to get confirmed diagnosis, Camhs did suggest a while ago that as Bert has big issues getting to sleep, still hyper in his room at midnight, sleep walking etc that they would consider prescribing melatonin for him.
Looks like this option is going to be taken away, I can't see how we could consider buying on line if he has never used it before, too many unknowns, but I do understand why others would obtain the melatonin on line if it has already been proven to work and that relief has been taken away
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Post by smileycat on Nov 21, 2013 16:18:18 GMT
Bagpuss thats terrible... I went to an apt for Spud without any make up on and literally begged for it to be prescribed... I used the words I can't carry on like this.... she got the script pad out pretty quick. In the grand scheme of things helping a family in this way must cost very little compared to other help. Our situation wasn't as bad as yours but I was at breaking point. It doesn't keep Spud asleep but gets him to sleep, when he wakes in the night I can re-dose him and know that he will go back to sleep in 30 mins. Otherwise he's ready to party in the small hours.... Can you go say I can't cope.... Hugs. Not funny... :-(
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louie
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Post by louie on Nov 21, 2013 18:00:41 GMT
Abiee, the melatonin we have IS prescribed and is slow release. My BS has Apsergers and a condition called Rhythmic Movement Disorder. His prescription helps him fall asleep and keeps him asleep. Our paediatrician handed over the responsibility of prescribing to our GP and only sees him once a year now. He's been on it for 2 years and his paed sees no need to take him of it in the "medium term" and I quote. I guess it's a postcode lottery. But certainly CAHMS in our area are very happy to prescribe it if needed. PM me if you want to know more.
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 21, 2013 18:17:20 GMT
Hi smiley cat, it's funny how when things go on for so long you begin to accept them as situation normal, I think I have been to breaking point and beyond and back again. From the moment we start bedtime routine Bert becomes bonkers, no calming bath for him, he is bouncing off the walls by the time he's left the bathroom & in his pjs, can't stay still and listen to a bedtime story, fidgets, makes noises and talks for Britain. I am up and down all evening removing stuff from his room, by midnight I am so wound up that I find it hard to sleep, so on average get about 3 hours. I am supposed to take medication myself at night but it makes me so sleepy, DH works away often, so I am afraid to sleep too deeply in case Bert starts sleep walking! We have a big meeting arranged for December so perhaps I should fall at their feet and beg
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Post by donatella on Nov 21, 2013 18:45:17 GMT
Bert sounds an awful lot like my son. It's draining. Pre melatonin it was taking around 5 hours to get him to sleep and nothing worked consistently. Sometimes massage helped, the dream catcher sometimes helped, initially the monster spray worked until the novelty wore off. The blanket swinging worked occasionally. But nothing really works as well as melatonin. Often, even now, if he struggles to sleep then he'll go into our bed. Doesn't need either of us with him - then gets carried back to his own bed later.
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Post by smileycat on Nov 21, 2013 21:24:14 GMT
Can you film him Bagpuss? It's so easy for the powers that be to just make these decisions- but I bet if it was them dealing with it they would be pretty quick to change their minds.
Sounds like you are a deserving case.... please let us know how the meeting goes. All you want for xmas is an evening to yourself and sleep right??!!
Hugs,
SC x x
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Post by gilreth on Nov 21, 2013 22:22:11 GMT
Just had a quick chat with DH (who happens to be a pharmacist) - he says it is almost certainly cost as product is off-license and a special. His comment was buy from US based suppliers. As thespouses says it is legally available there. Also if you are not being able to get it prescribed keep banging on at them - get letters from school etc. It can still be prescribed just have to understand potential issues. My mother is on an off license drug which she had to fight long & hard to get so I do understand the problems.
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 21, 2013 22:23:22 GMT
Thanks smiley cat DH isn't keen on medication for Bert, but has backed me up with camhs ( that or the divorce courts ). The thing is he works away a lot and gets a good nights sleep in a hotel, but when he is home, he also dreads it as bedtime approaches, by 10pm he is not feeling so therapeutic himself, lol. I would be happy if Bert took it 2 or 3 nights a week even, don't know if that is feasible or needs to be taken continuously to work, so I could at least get some sleep and feel less grumpy. Bert's behaviour is always more manageable when he isn't tired too. I will keep you posted.
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louie
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Post by louie on Nov 22, 2013 9:52:08 GMT
Hi bapuss. As I understand it, Melatonin is a natural product we make in our own bodies-it's just topping it up. If my BS forgets to take his tablet, he is down the stairs within 1/2 hour as there's no way he'll be going to sleep without it and he knows. So in my experience we have to take it every night. We do a planned no tablet every 6 months but the same result always occurs.
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 22, 2013 10:55:35 GMT
Thanks louie, that's very helpful
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Post by smileycat on Nov 22, 2013 12:23:02 GMT
It's true- I just don't think our busy kids make enough if it naturally.
I used to work with a lady who's son has epilepsy, she said his meds were pretty hefty things and was upset because she had no choice but to give them to him despite the fact that no 'safe' dose had ben established for children because it's not legal to test such strong meds on children. It was hell for her every time he grew because it took ages to get the dose right to stop the seizures.
Melatonin isn't in this category....!!!
SC x
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Post by smileycat on Nov 22, 2013 12:26:45 GMT
P.S Posting in haste so just seen your other comment... I've noticed that as time has gone on Spud is responding better to the melatonin, he's calmer at bedtime, wants to go in his cot and has begun to associate sleep as a good thing. If I'd only given it to him some nights this wouldn't of happened.
I can give him the max dose of 2 ml on a night where he's been stressed in the day or bring it down to 1ml/ 1.5 ml on a good day.
We've only seen good effects since giving it to him.
Hard though eh...
SC x
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 22, 2013 12:46:37 GMT
I am going to be pushing for this to be prescribed at the next meeting. Midnight last night,yet again clearing the floor of his room from toys and obstacles, heaven knows what would happen if we had to evacuate quickly. He had built a den betweem 11pm and midnight,and when I went to put the covers over him he turned round,sat up wide awake and said I am still not tired mummy.
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Post by donatella on Nov 22, 2013 14:20:27 GMT
Well someone somewhere is making an awful lot of money from the manufacture of melatonin. When I asked about a private prescription the pharmacist checked her list and told me that 60 x 2mg immediate release capsules would cost just over £100!!
I've just ordered 120 2.5 mg caps over the phone from a company in Jersey for a total cost, including shipping, of £10.04.
Someone's coining it!
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Post by gilreth on Nov 22, 2013 16:36:10 GMT
Problem is inside UK donatella is that it is a special-order medicine so not manufactured in great quantities here - plus IR is unlicensed whereas MR is licensed (so a little cheaper privately). Therefore it costs the pharmacies more to buy in - it is worth remembering that they pay out for all medications and then have to claim the costs back for NHS prescriptions - which is a complicated system as you may not get what you paid for depending on agreed prices. The money will be mainly going to the drug manufacturers - with the pharmacy making a little profit - well depending on which pharmacy you use. We paid a standard NHS prescription charge in Boots for 7 day emergency supply of my blood pressure medication - when the drugs cost them about £1 at most. Not a happy husband - I'd forgotten those particular drugs when packing for holiday. I will check with my husband about the cost for private prescriptions for melatonin from his pharmacy out of interest.
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