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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 20, 2013 19:58:00 GMT
Bert was in a foul mood when I picked him up from school, I managed to drive us home under a torrent of unpleasant, angry ranting, got to front door and he lost it big time. I stayed calm said nothing until we were indoors, let him rage a bit more hoping he would start to wind down. He swore at me, said he was going off to his room "so don’t bother to tell me to go to my room", controlling of course. I asked him to come down as we needed to speak, he flew down stairs and attacked me, hitting, punching me so hard, has pulled my jumper out of shape where he was trying to get at my throat. I have had enough, I burst in to tears, and shouted for him to stop and that I was going to call the police. It was enough to stop him, and then we had all the feeling ashamed behaviour, but still stroppy and defiant . Sadly school is at the root of this. He couldn’t manage his numeracy work this morning, again, he got anxious and stressed, and his head went down on the table hands and arms covering his head. We see this often at home when things are too much for him and his teacher mentioned that she has seen him do this when struggling. Teaching assistant in charge of class yet again put him on an amber warning on the board for bad behaviour/refusing to do his work. This increased his anxiety, could manage to do the work even less, she puts him on Red and he loses 10 minutes of lunch hour. This remains with him and his anger and shame has built up during afternoon so I am going to get it at home time. This is the last straw, yes he needs to be disciplined for behavioural issues but not because he can’t do something. We were told they wanted him in the Senco's class, although they do not believe Bert has any issues, and then the senco is always off doing something else so he is with TAs or supply staff. I phoned school just after 4pm no answer, have left a message for one of the heads to call me back and stressed that Bert will not be in tomorrow until we have discussed an incident that happened today. We are in the middle of an assessment with the clinical Psychologist at camhs, we went in to discuss background stuff without Bert yesterday, and have spoken with her again today before this incident. She agrees he is very complex, many traits from asd,odd and ticks all the boxes for ADHD, but it looks like we will not get a definitive diagnosis as school are denying they see issues there. The staff are just not experienced enough or are failing or refusing to see them. The psych is arranging to spend a day observing him at school, but we cannot see it being productive how things stand. It worries me how much weight is given to schools opinion when there is so much evidence of issues at home and other settings such as Beavers. Although I frightened Bert with the police, he hasn’t learnt anything, he is shouting at Dad from the bathroom right now ramping it up for the usual bedtime madness. Dad is cancelling work tomorrow so we can sort out a new school hopefully.Sorry for the rambling post I am still very shaken, he is only eight, but he is a tall lad, so strong and it is getting harder for me to control him physically and I am concerned for the future  |
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Post by abiee on Nov 20, 2013 20:31:00 GMT
It can be really scary cant it, my DD is 7 and can be very violent. She too is big for her age and I fear for the day when I am not able to physically restrain her
She does have a lot of support at school though and this is what it sounds like your Bert needs
DD has a full time 1-1 support- the same TA she has had since she started at school
We had lots of meetings at school with CAMHS attending- do they still do CAF's
CAMHS and education are very separate and they need to be working together to support Bert
You could get in touch with parent partnership. They are funded by LA and work with parents to support them getting help in school, SOSSEN! are useful too
The battle for support is horrible
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 20, 2013 20:45:20 GMT
Thanks Abiee, I know we are not alone in experiencing this, he has always had terrible tantrums, has threatened Dad with a knife a couple of years ago although we were sure he wouldn't have followed through with it. The anger was something different this time.
It just like groundhog day, everyone agrees he has complex needs except school, they dangle a diagnosis in front of us which could get us the support Bert clearly needs in schoo,l then someone changes their mind to "only has X amounts of traits of" and we are back to stage 1 again. Parent partnership are on my list to contact re moving Bert to a new school, but I will have a look at SOSSEN too.
Thanks again Bagpuss
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Post by abiee on Nov 20, 2013 20:57:17 GMT
I remember our lovely SW saying to us when DD was only 3- keep your knives out of reach
My DD is lovely but when she is out of control or stresses there is no limit to what she will do
Is he ever violent to other children?
Our school had no real choice with the 1-1 because she was so violent towards other children- terrible but at least it did get her the support. We are lucky though, I dont always see eye to eye with school, but they are very understanding and supportive
Your school sounds like a dead loss. Is it a big school?
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 20, 2013 21:39:37 GMT
Bert is not violent to his friends as such, but his group of friends are very rough and tumble, love fighting games and have massive friendship issues, poor social skills.
He is in a lower school for ages 3 to 9 years, intake of 45 per year so in KS 2 you have 3 classes split 50/50 of year 3 and 4 pupil ,30 in a class. We have considered moving counties to get him into a 2 tier system but then will lose the good post adoption support we have had recently and have to start again with a different Camhs.
The Camhs Psych has said she may need Bert to come back and do some more cognitive tests as there is some indication of a possible learning difficulty. She is still information gathering at the moment and we will not have the finished report until December. We cannot wait until then so we will have to hope we can secure a place at the best school possible for him. TBH our trust of existing school is so low, for the sake of our sanity, we need to start afresh asap.
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Post by caledonia on Nov 21, 2013 9:51:57 GMT
Hi Bagpuss
I share your frustration with school not recognising or admitting there are problems. DD (12) was verbally diagnosed with ADHD but school say there is no problem and so she cant get a formal diagnosis. Hope you find a more supportive school that will help with the diagnosis.
Cale
X
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Post by sivier on Nov 21, 2013 10:05:12 GMT
That sounds so difficult, Bagpuss, with the school just not getting it and sounds a good idea to explore other options. It's one thing when a school has little practical experience of adoption/attachment but are willing to listen and learn, but another if they're not. I hope you have a better day today.
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Post by moo on Nov 21, 2013 10:30:46 GMT
I just don't get it with schools.... Why is it that our children all have real tangible needs but school " just can't see it or fail them all so regularly...."
There really must be something within school structure that means that they feel they will lose out financially or just have to work harder with our children....
I too have real concerns about baa... School have always denied problems.... Finally they are coming to me with stuff I ' knew ' was happening & they thus far had denied.... When they tell of it now I say oh yes I talked to you about this before didn't I ... So now it is happening?? O.k. Fine so what are you planning to do??? ( que goldfish impressions ).  
At least bagpuss you seem to have great camhs & other pro support aggreeing with you & importantly disagreeing with school.... Can they advise a better school for you.... Like me this behaviour has to be sorted or strategys found now before he gets too big & any stronger... My sentiments totally.....
But like me they are indirectly telling you there is a problem coz he keeps getting their insane amber warnings......
Good Luck I hope your pro at camhs can sort out school.... ( I thought their expertise trumped school??? ) That will ease all so much for you.....
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 21, 2013 11:39:00 GMT
Good Morning- and thanks for the replies. I am sick to the back teeth of it , worst of all is that it seems to be happening to so many families, I am not sure how much is down to the reduction in precious resources or just lack of understanding and training. I think we are particularly unlucky with our school, chosen because it seemed a nurturing place, we have tried so hard to work with them for Berts sake as he doesn't do change well. Update: Head teacher rang at 8am in response to my phone message. She clearly thought it was going to be about an incident of Bert being hurt or upset by the group he hangs out with which school have had trouble getting to grips with. When I explained what had happened calmly and reasonably, asking for clarification from the staff involved,she was straight on the defensive. I have reiterated that Bert CAN'T do things not wont do right now, and that initial thoughts from Clinical psych after cognitive tasks may indicate some learning difficulties, but he is also showing traits of ASD, ODD,ADHD and could even be FAE. There is no doubt his ability to focus and concentrate is seriously impaired whether it be from anxiety/hypervigilance or ADHD. She tried to patronise me that Trauma looks so much like other conditions such as ASD and it doesn't mean Bert has Learning diffs. No sh*t Sherlock, we have been trying to tell them this for 4.5 years now. Sorry as you can see I am still very cross.I think they are worried now in case they have missed something that they should have seen. I have said that all this chopping and changing of teachers in a day doesn't help him. His therapy session was cancelled yesterday which had knocked him out of kilter, he was humiliated and has said that he repeatedly told the TA that he didn't understand, so was punished for being stupid, and then just felt angry and sad inside until hometime.Bert says she was cross with him when he put his head on the table and covered it with his arms which got him the amber warning yet senco has noticed he does this when he is struggling then gives up, so the red sanction was for him giving up really.I asked him if he understood why he ended up on red and he just said it's cos I am stupid. I have told Head that traffic light system is useless for Bert as he doesn't understand consequences. The senco was blaming Berts appointments for lack of progress recently but when I mentioned this to Head T this morning she said "oh no we do realise that he needs this help and see it as short term pain long term gain". At least it proves she has seen my recent letter, advising Camhs will write a letter of confirmation of need for input if the absences are affecting their targets. The profs are saying he is so complex that he is unlikely to get a definitive straight forward diagnosis which is what school wants, ticks their boxes, but surely they should be able to teach him taking into account the behaviours and issues he has, not just on the basis of a label. A very subdued Bert went of to school this morning. A very frazzled mummy pacing about at home waiting for calls from PA and Camhs  |
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Post by taliesin on Nov 21, 2013 13:04:43 GMT
Bagpuss, I really feel for you....cant comment on the rest (well, I could but it wouldnt be helpful  !!) But what does strike me is that its the TA who cant cope and is stressed, thus her reactions.......and would possibly explain the HT's defensiveness over yesterdays incident if she knows the TA isnt really supported/trained to deal with situs...not that it helps you or Bert! Is it worth saying that to the HT to getting it out there so she can see your not being hoodwinked and you can see yourself whats going on...and get her on your side - along the lines of " I know it cant be easy for the TA - I live and love Burt and know its not easy - so I understand why TA may feel stressed and REACT.......BUT....blah blah" Sorry dont want to teach you to suck eggs and all that....but this is awful for you and I really for you.......xxx |
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Post by moo on Nov 21, 2013 13:18:30 GMT
Hugs to you bagpuss.... I sooo feel for you....
School always seem to have their own ' mad ' agenda....
I get that h.t. has to support her staff but clearly they are not supporting & teaching ergo therefore not doing their job?!!
I am also with you that they don't want to do anything unless it gives them a bunch of boxes to tick....
Well done for keeping so calm.... 
Hope the cancelled session is re booked soon....
{{{}}}
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 21, 2013 13:26:26 GMT
Thanks Taliesin, the problem is that the TA is an experienced Higher level TA with 2 Autistic spectrum lads of her own, she just sees Bert as anxious, and he exhibits different traits of ASD to her children. She was his TA in pre school and Reception and she still perceives him to be as he was at 4 years but sadly at 8yrs he is functioning emotionally and behaviourally at 4 to 5 Years of age and has a whole list of new issues now  The staff are kind, do care but just do not get it however many leaflets I take in or meetings they have with other proffs. I do help out at school, but by choice not in Berts class so I do have a good idea of whats going on and how things are handled, keep your enemies close and all that |
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Post by ceci on Nov 21, 2013 13:51:44 GMT
Hi Bagpuss
Would you consider taking him out of school and home schooling? My almost 9 year old doesn't cope with school either and we have a lot of fallout at home. School don't get it and I've stopped talking. Instead I'm trying to find a way of taking her out permanently. Everyone is against it (family and friends), with lots of barriers, but looking ahead I think it's the only thing that will make a difference to her and her future. We seem to spend our childhoods under constant pressure at school, and much of our adult lives doing jobs we don't particularly enjoy, and I think there's a better way for many of our children (and sometimes for us adults!!!).
It's really hard. Hope you find an alternative that really works well.
Ceci
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 21, 2013 14:06:00 GMT
Hi Ceci, DH and I have discussed home schooling and can definately see the merit in it.Bert would miss being part of the "pack" which is school. He has only just started to accept me as mummy over 6 years in after a year of theraplay and DH and I do not feel that the pair of us spending so much enforced time together will be a good idea right now. The thought off current level of fallout 24/7 with no respite is not appealing tbh. I do agree that there is definatley a better way for many of our children and I will keep looking for it and just do our best in the meantime. I hope you find a way for your daughter.
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Nov 21, 2013 16:52:23 GMT
(((Bagpuss))). This has taken me right back.
I just couldn't get over how they would all join ranks and try to justify their mistakes/stupidity and everything was always my DDs fault. Not theirs, for removing her LSA, or for expecting her to play hockey unsupported with all the kids who were the least regulated. etc,etc. The best was getting the local ASD 'expert' to agree with them that my dd would benefit from having an unplanned change of teacher at the same time as a change in LSA (who had a daughter in my DDs class).
The only good thing was that by the end they were as fed up with me as I was with them, and the head was active in helping us move schools (that tells you something, I think).
I was adamant that I wanted them in a special school. Academically, I think they would be able to hold their own at mainstream, but they both have enough 'quirks' that i was able to get it for them. School is now easy for me, and they are having a successful education. I don't think they would be in mainstream secondary.
Have you got alternative choices?
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Post by bagpuss72 on Nov 21, 2013 17:54:28 GMT
Hey Little Miss C, sorry to bring back painful memories I think the Heads and office staff will be hanging out the bunting when Bert leaves. My consolation is that I know of several birth parents very unhappy with how the place is currently run, and they will continue to be a pain in the bum long after we are in pastures new. Bert is quirky and I think he would do well in a mixed ability special school or mainstream with a supportive teaching team. Everyone has always said Bert is bright but this assessment at camhs is the first time profs have spoken of possible learning difficulties, (felt to be cognitive based) since we adopted him as an infant. DH just wants us to find a school where Bert is happy and feels safe and believes that with the right teacher he will start to enjoy learning again. We do not have any primary special schools in local area,but there is one lower school with such a good reputation and excellent senco, also recommended by other adoptive parents and parents of a child with extreme SE needs. We have approached them before half term and they have insisted they are oversubscribed. I am hoping our local parent Partnership will be able to help us make a case. |
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Nov 21, 2013 18:45:29 GMT
I rang new school day before transition planning meeting to be told that there had been a mistake and there wasn't actually spaces for my 2.
LEA can overrule HT decision re over subscribing and my LEA boss spoke with the boss of LEA of which school is in.
Also, mainstream HT spoke with school HT, I imagine she was threatening exclusion/we can't cope etc.
2 weeks later it was sorted and they started at the start of the next term.
Good luck, PP should be able to help.
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!!)
