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Post by jellies on Nov 8, 2013 9:38:14 GMT
Most folk on here will know that I am doing battle with a touch of the old boob cancer atm. EJ is really rallying and (possibly together with ADHD meds - yes ok - I admit it I thought they wouldn't touch him - but I was wrong) is managing all the changes to routine etc that comes with 3 weekly chemo very well.
BJ (yr 9) - well now - that is an entirely different kettle of fish. He has had difficulties at school for a few yrs (Mainstream), have had to fight tooth and nail to get the LA to do a cognitive assessment following a recommendation for that from GOS trauma and attachment team almost 2 yrs ago. That is happening this coming Monday.
He has no friends, he gets detentions at a drop of a hat - had one this week for `making a fuss` in a German Lesson !!!!! He never goes out after school or at weekends - but then why would he when he has no one to go out with.
Since my diagnosis in September, he has taken to not sleeping at night in a big way. This is becoming unbearable on alot of fronts, not least of which is my being exhausted for 2 weeks out of every 3 - without lying awake listening to what he is getting up to. We have tried lots of tactics, taken all the electronics away, had him on the rowing machine/cycling machine for a good amount of time to tire him out, had him sleeping in with me/dh in case he is anxious about me popping me cloggs in the night or some such thing. Nothing is working.
I think he is sleeping from midnightish - until about 3am - but then he is up wandering, in the kitchen making snacks, laid on the sofa watching cartoon network or on his ipad (which I hide most nights if I remember to do that but he manages to find it). I then get in a strop - I physically march him up to bed and last night I laid next to him in a tiny (bunk bed sized) so that he could not get out of bed. He did fall asleep, but not until about 5am. We then have the problem of getting him up for school - but I am sure most of you will get how difficult that can be at the best times, let alone when the sleeping is so erratic.
Do all (normal ish) teenagers go through a phase like this ? Is it a phase or is there something seriously amiss here, do teens get insomnia or is it all to do with him coping with my illness and treatment ? Saw CAMHS psych with EJ for his ADHD meds review last week and told her briefly about my concerns with BJ - she was not interested really. Wittering now - and if I am not careful, I will not be ready to leave on time to get to my last Mindfulness session.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 10:16:59 GMT
Interesting Jellies as I am going through similar with my YDD (year 8) at the moment.
She has started staying up really late at night, is addicted to her laptop/i-pod, and will watch TV on catch up late into the night. I have now started taking laptop/i-pod away at 10pm and keep it in my bedroom, in the laptop safe I had to buy to keep them safe from EDD disinfecting them due to her chronic OCD. DD is ok with this (to a point), but will still stay down there watching TV, even if I take the remote controls upstairs with me, she will manually change stations etc.
What I did discover is that she has recently started drinking coffee. I am a coffee drinker, (hate tea), and I noticed my coffee supply was going down rapidly. I do also have de-caff coffee on the shelf, so I decided to buy two jars of de-caf and have decanted one jar of de-caff into the regular coffee jar, keeping the real coffee for me hidden away. This has worked in that DD hasn't noticed the difference, and probably thinks she has one over on me when she's drinking the "real coffee". It does seem to have worked a bit in that she is now going to bed at 11.30 as opposed to 1am which she was doing over half term. She does however sometimes get up really early at 5.00-6.00am to go down to watch TV, so hearing about your DS makes me wonder if it is a teen thing, perhaps they don't need long periods of sleep and only need 4-5 hours at a time?
I can remember in my early teens not feeling tired late at night and not wanting to go to bed. I was an easy child and compliant and used to go to bed when I was told, but I do remember reading and listening to music for hours and hours after everyone else had gone to sleep, so maybe it is a teen thing?
We do have a lot of worries going on here too with EDD having just gone into care so, YDD is not her usual self due to what's been going on and the amount of upheval and police visits before EDD was removed, so yes similar to your DS a lot of worries, which she is internalizing and is coming out in aggressive and defiant behaviour which I am now trying to get help for her with. Will pm you later with some of this weeks events.
Will be interested to see what others think
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Post by donatella on Nov 8, 2013 11:54:33 GMT
Not normal for my 12 year old, no. Takes longer to get to sleep not helped my him hiding his ipod under his pillow but once he's asleep that's it. Getting him up in the morning is the next battle.
Now, I know things are difficult at the moment and it's easy to see why he's struggling but - at the risk of sounding like I'm teaching you to suck eggs - have you considered that, being sibs, the same meds that are helping EJ may well also help BJ?? You know these things are genetic and I'm not for one minute dismissing his trauma but maybe there's also something more organic as well.
As for sleep, melatonin. Middlys been taking immediate release for a long time and it works a treat. It doesn't matter how much exercise he has he can't get to sleep without it. We noticed a difference straight away when he had to take the slow release rubbish. It neither got him to sleep nor kept him to sleep. I've now ordered online. The blxxdy things look more like suppositories so god knows how he's going to swallow them!! I know not everyone is into meds but hey sometimes needs must. You need your rest Mrs!!
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Post by moo on Nov 8, 2013 12:20:10 GMT
Hey jellies... This a tuffie for you esp right now....
No experience to offer just wanted to offer support....
Sorry you didn't get any help from camhs...pah typical... 
Think Donatella could be onto something re meds.... Or maybe just try the melatonin.... 
Good Luck please try & get some rest xx
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by happyone on Nov 8, 2013 12:50:36 GMT
I'm very honest about being a " looked after child" when younger my sleep pattern is horrendous I'm now 40 and it's still bad I find silence at bed time impossible ... I use a radio which drove hubby mad as I'd fall asleep to it and it would wake him haha so I use utube now on I phone it stops with program x I also cannot sleep with window closed again my poor hubby when it's really bad I have windows wide open fan on and iPhone xxx I'm cold too but my Sences have to be active to sleep  ?? So many yp I have looked after have been the same |
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Post by phoebe on Nov 8, 2013 13:49:45 GMT
Jellies, I was chatting to another mum of teens recently who had been reading lots about teen sleep patterns. Apparently they are in a shifting phase where they move later and later for a while! All the previously mentioned issues apply to any sleep issues too - caffeine in fizzy drinks, chocolate etc is a commomn problem with teens. Certain foods a re helpful too - pasta, potatoes, and bizarrely turkey! Eating can disrupt sleep if too late / hard to digest. With DS, sugar is a major issue so have to hide sweets for a few hours before bed or he will drop off then wake again quickly. When I had a major sleep issue, i found "white noise" CDs helpful - as others have mentioned, silence is often too difficult. Melatonin is definitely a big help for sleep, so you could ask for a trial prescription. Good luck. x
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Post by jollymummy on Nov 8, 2013 14:10:36 GMT
I would definitely agree that melatonin can help. Using backlit screen (such as Ipads/iphones) stops your brain from producing melatonin (as, I think, does playing computer games - but not entirely sure I am right about that). Melatonin is what tells your body that it is time to sleep. It is freely available in the States so if you know anyone who is going there they may be able to get it. Or yuo can get it on prescription. A friend recently had her son diagnosed as having ADHD and his consultant diagnosed melatonin and his sleep patterns have hugely improved.
With regards to what is normal for teens. Prof Winston had a really good program on about teens some years ago, In it he mentioned that teens bodyclocks shift so that they want to stay awake later (hence cannot get to sleep at night so easily) but still need a lot of sleep so it can be difficult for them to get up in the morning!
As an occasional insomniac I have also found velerian helpful. It is a herbal medicine and you can get it at health food shops. It has a calming effect (but you need to take it for a few days before it has any effect (you can also get it as drops to put on your pillow).
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Post by homebird on Nov 8, 2013 14:20:02 GMT
My 12 year old is allowed the laptop until 9.00pm and then goes to her room where she watches dvd's, listens to music or chats to friends on her mobile phone. She is usually still active long after we go to sleep. She gets herself up in the mornings for school (I mean she uses an alarm to wake her) and is always bright and ready for the day, She does get tired by the end of the week and I'm sure she could go to sleep earlier but with everyone posting and chatting on facebook until midnight-ish she doesn't want to miss out. She makes up for it at the weekend though - sleeps in until well past noon. My older two (BC now in their mid 20's) didn't have facebook or phones for chat so they would go up to their rooms and read or listen to music until they wanted to sleep and also had long lie ins at the weekend.
Jellies, I don't think getting just 3 hours sleep a night is quite enough and as the change of sleep pattern coincides with your diagnosis it sounds like he is anxious and needs help.
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Post by haze on Nov 8, 2013 18:26:21 GMT
We have had ongoing issues with sleep with oldest for years which got worse as she hit puberty. Same sort of thing; not getting off to sleep for hours, only sleeping in short bursts, wandering around in the night, etc and the HIDEOUS behaviour from being completely knackered.
She has finally been prescribed melatonin via cahms & it has changed our lives. She takes it half an hour or so before going to bed & is asleep within the hour & stays asleep for the most part. She has the slow release stuff. She can still be pretty bloomin awkward but the difference has been amazing. I just hope it continues!
I really hope you get some help with this!
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Post by jellies on Nov 8, 2013 22:05:07 GMT
Thanks folks.
Ej was on melatonin for quite a few yrs and it did help him - but this feels different, although the screen time stuff stopping melatonin production is interesting.
Had a long chat with Ej's old therapist today - it maybe that we decide to take him there for some therapeutic input.
My final mindfulness session also got me thinking too - quite a lot about the mindfulness in schools program with some hints and tips about using some mindfulness techniques with our children and young people - So I have made a decision to try some of those techniques with him over the next few weeks to see if that helps before going down the melatonin route/ CAMHS/ therapist.
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Post by phoebe on Nov 8, 2013 22:08:58 GMT
Good luck with this, hope sleep comes swiftly to you both. x
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Post by donatella on Nov 8, 2013 22:32:46 GMT
relaxkids.comHave you heard of this? Middlys school do it. One of the teachers has been trained to do it.
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Post by jellies on Nov 9, 2013 11:45:16 GMT
Yes Donatella, it is mindfulness but a commercial arm. Don't care how it is done or applied (or who provides it) but essential for the likes of your middly and both of mine.
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Nov 11, 2013 21:28:28 GMT
My yd who has had trouble sleeping likes to have a crutch, which changes from month on month.
Always sleeps with a light on, soft music sometimes helps, as does rescue sleep remedy and lavender oil.
ED loves a massage (she has back issues so I try to do it every night and I think its been very beneficial for her whole emotional state.
Also, not everyone's cup of tea, - but homeopathy did help, and more than just her sleep.
Sounds very tough for you, - try and look after yourself too.
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Post by peartree on Nov 12, 2013 14:07:39 GMT
Hi jellies
Good questions
my experience is this
Partridge sleeps like a log
Hypervigelent yes so will hear a mouse move a pebble .... But then asleep straight away
Blossom
Different matter
Up fidgeting
Not much sleep
Then she has much less emotional control and copes less in the day
Making the sleep much trickier
Things that helped
Sleep hygiene (google will explain better than me!)
Seeing a cranial osteopath
Strict bedtime routines
Low lighting
Vanilla/ sandalwood smellies
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