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Post by mrsbear21 on Oct 8, 2023 12:18:48 GMT
So 15 months into life with Paddington, and 4 weeks into me being back at work, and I don't think my start to parenthood could have been much better. Don't get me wrong, there are loads of irritations and long term worries; but no major major bumps for me. I feel very bonded to Paddington; am very aware that for now he's coping so well with all his life changes; and happy with how happy he is and that he seems to be improving in the areas that are the biggest challenge for him. Most recently he's coped really well with me being at work.
But Mr Bear is just not in the same space and I'm floundering a little with how to support him. Actually my compassion seems to be failing me most, which I'm not especially proud of. I'm getting too easily exasperated with him or being hurt he's not happier (which is never going to help).
So does this sound familiar to anyone and what can I do / try harder on?
Mr Bear is a classic pessimist and really does not cope very well with change. We both knew the transition to fatherhood would be hard and take a long time for him. It's not that he's not bonded to Paddington; we've both acknowledged how blessed we feel with the match. But he's finding the grind of every day parenting really really hard. More than I had anticipated. And it seems even what I had anticipated, i.e. it taking him longer than me, annoys me more than I thought it would. He rarely has something positive to say and regularly dwells on the negative.
Very recently, with my return to work, it's dawned on me splitting may be in play here. Paddington definitely plays up more for Mr Bear in general; and I think I've probably not allowed for the fact that may be significantly worse when I'm not around at all.
In any event Mr Bear feels very guilty about all this, which is stifling him communicating how he feels with me (never mind anyone else).
My employer offers parental counselling as one of its back to work benefits. They would find a therapist who specialises in adoption (it's not just one set person) and it's for partners too. But Mr Bear hates the thought of any therapy (something I'm beginning to think we didn't properly address when being assessed/preparing for adoption). I've asked him to seriously consider just trying one session. Which he absolutely will do. But I would never force him if ultimately he says no. Other than that I'm out of ideas. He's said no to speaking with his parents about it (too guilty). That's not normal for him when he' down, so I am worried.
Thanks in advance for all and any suggestions.
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Post by flutterby on Oct 8, 2023 18:17:24 GMT
I have a few thoughts, but pressed for time. Didn't want to read and run and just wanted to let you know I'll be in touch when I'm home (after my drive across half of Europe to get there) xx
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Post by serrakunda on Oct 8, 2023 19:09:10 GMT
Im not very up on whats happening at Adoption UK these days but I wonder if there are any support groups for men where he may feel more open to talking?
He certainly isnt the first parent, make or female, to find adjusting to parenthood hard, and he won’t be the last. I guess the main thing is to try and encourage him not to feel guilty about his feelings ( says the aging spinster!!! )
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Post by leo on Oct 8, 2023 21:08:27 GMT
Oh goodness, that sounds hard.
Obviously I'm not going to be a massive help as I'm single - but I'll give it a go.
Children, especially traumatised ones, are extremely adept at picking up on tensions between people and sliding themselves in any little gap to wedge it further apart. It is quite possible Paddington is doing this. (I have an expert at this - Tsunami tries it between me and school. I'm wise to it now but school rarely pick up on it and it causes no end of issues!) Have the two of you talked through whether this could be what's happening?
Do Paddington and Mr. Bear have any time on their own? Is there a hobby or activity they could join together and attend each week - ideally something led by someone else so there is no pressure on Mr. Bear to be fully 'in charge' or responsible for the activity going well?
If that's not manageable, could they do something each week together for you (make you breakfast maybe) with an emphasis on the message, 'We both love Mrs. Bear and Mrs. Bear loves both of us'? It may help if there is any splitting going on.
Would planning some activities out as a couple work - ones where you are active or busy so can't fall into a discussion about home life - to remind you of who you were before you became parents, to re-ignite that feeling of being a team?
Is he perhaps still trying to work out his own feelings about it all and therefore can't yet talk about what's going on for him?
I'm so sorry you are in this situation. I don't think it's unusual for one parent to start to struggle more once the initial difficulties have been dealt with and things have started to settle.
I hope somebody with better advice than me comes along soon.
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Post by mrsbear21 on Oct 10, 2023 20:46:21 GMT
Thank you all. Actually it has been quite a relief to me to write it down and then just leave it here a little. It's made it easier to just be there when Mr Bear needs and tell him how well he's doing. I will keep pressing him not to feel guilty. To the outside world, he looks like (and in fact he is) doing great in terms of doing all the practical parenting.
They do have one on one time together. Mostly cycling which is great for Paddington running off energy. But also zaps Mr Bear of energy. I think there may well be something in finding a more structured/led activity for them.
Something about Paddington wriggling into the cracks makes me smile. I know it shouldn't, but it strikes a chord. That probably tells me something. Although to be honest Paddington wouldn't need adoption super powers to pick up on Mr Bear being tense. It's pretty apparent if you're around him for long.
We're on holiday next week. And we've agreed to put Paddington into the kids club for a couple of hours. I think he can manage that without too many issues; and Mr Bear needs down time but not alone time if you see what I mean.
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Post by flutterby on Oct 12, 2023 6:10:33 GMT
Sorry for the late reply, I needed some downtime myself after I got home.
I am wondering if there are one or several of the following at play:
Firstly, children can only use splitting, where there is something to split over. So where are you, even subtly, not on the same page?
You have clearly taken to project adoption, despite the challenges, the drudgery of day to day, you seem to relish it.
Might your husband feel left behind? Might he miss the uninterrupted closeness you two had before? Might he feel he has just become part of your project?
Might he feel he is being managed and "should perform" by some imagined standard?
Or did he, even subconciously, want to do you a favour by adopting because it was clearly very important to you? And now he is starting to resent you over it?
Re counselling, might he feel he is being pathologized over something, which anyone would argue is a very hard job to do?
Please don't think I'm pointing the finger at you, these examples are taken from my own and other adopters experiences.
Try and carve out some time just for the two of you. Where no-one is allowed to mention adoption or children, have grown up conversations like you used to.
Do you miss the old times? Say this to him. He may not want you to worry about him, but he will appreciate being on the same page.
Ask him directly if he feels resentful and be prepared to listen. The key is not to take anything personal, but to have your goal in mind - getting the connection going again between the two of you.
You said you get irritated that he is not as happy as you, does his lack of enthusiasm spoil the experience for you? Do you feel lonely and sad, even emotionally abandoned, not to be able to truly share your happiness with him, and thus souring it all for you?
The NATP have lots of parenting resources, groups to join, adoption specific counselling (maybe for you to speak about things to clear your own mind rather than your husband). They also run a Dads group. Google them, they have been a life saver to us at times. For training, emotional support, peer support.
If you want to pm me , please feel free. xxx
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Post by mrsbear21 on Oct 19, 2023 12:47:21 GMT
So I'm writing down my answers to your questions because things set down in black and white help me focus/be honest.
Firstly, children can only use splitting, where there is something to split over. So where are you, even subtly, not on the same page?
Yep, pretty sure we're not on the same page.
You have clearly taken to project adoption, despite the challenges, the drudgery of day to day, you seem to relish it.
Yep, definitely true.
Might your husband feel left behind?
Yes, possible.
Might he miss the uninterrupted closeness you two had before?
Also possible.
Might he feel he has just become part of your project?
I hope not, but...
Might he feel he is being managed and "should perform" by some imagined standard?
In fairness alot of the time he is being managed. In that the logistics of things are left for me to sort or they wouldn't get done.... But I can see that I possibly need to consider how I communicate on these topics because (other than not being quite as able to forward plan) there is no standard I think he's falling short of. (I just expect some thanks which isn't always forth coming - But maybe that comes out as you should be gratefulI'm.doing these things you aren't/can't)
I do keep telling him everything he's feeling (guilt/frustration) is perfectly natural and that I don't judge it. Not sure he believes me. Maybe that's becauee my actions communciare something different). Terrible as it is being on holiday has been helpful because there are a lot of exasperated parents here. We've both noticed it.
Or did he, even subconciously, want to do you a favour by adopting because it was clearly very important to you? And now he is starting to resent you over it?
Don't know. This is my big fear. We talked a lot through the process about any time one of us wanted to walk away (right up until Paddinbeing told) we could and the other would back them. We only had one big wobble. But that was pre us being approved to adopt and it was me having serious second thoughts. Mr Bear said we should keep going. I'm probably going to have to ask him about this and be prepared for the answer.
Re counselling, might he feel he is being pathologized over something, which anyone would argue is a very hard job to do?
Quite possibly. I really won't push this if he doesn't want to. We haven't discussed it again yet.
Please don't think I'm pointing the finger at you, these examples are taken from my own and other adopters experiences.
Hard truths but given my answers I'm definitely a factor in this.
Try and carve out some time just for the two of you. Where no-one is allowed to mention adoption or children, have grown up conversations like you used to.
We do this a bit but I think maybe we need to make more of an effort. Paddington is staying with MIL & FIL next week for the second week of halfterm. We're having a date night which Mr Bear organised one night. Probably not on the night (given your suggestions above) but after that we should probably discuss making it more regular.
Do you miss the old times?
No. Don't get me wrong, I loved our life before too. But I always wanted to be a mum (and was never unclear about that) and Paddington is everything I'd hoped for. How big a problem is that because he definitely does?
Say this to him. He may not want you to worry about him, but he will appreciate being on the same page.
I can't really say that if I don't mean it. Even though I could do it quite convincingly.
Ask him directly if he feels resentful and be prepared to listen. The key is not to take anything personal, but to have your goal in mind - getting the connection going again between the two of you.
Yep definitely need to do thia..
You said you get irritated that he is not as happy as you, does his lack of enthusiasm spoil the experience for you? Do you feel lonely and emotionally abandoned, not to be able to truly share your happiness with him, and thus souring it all for you.
Souring my happiness yes. But mostly because of how worried I am about him. And on occasion because I think he's so detached he's missing important moments. That's quite judgy of me when I write it down.
The NATP - I'll definitely look over their website again. I have it bookmarked from training but ironically didn't think we needed much because Paddington was doing so well.....
Thank you. Being frank with myself and writing it down has been very helpful.
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Post by leo on Oct 19, 2023 19:50:42 GMT
Something that strikes me from both one of your earlier posts and this most recent one, is about you telling him you are not judging him what he is feeling is ok...
This is only based on my personal experience - but when someone tells me those kind of things, it instantly makes me feel worse. Im my mind, it tells me they are very much saying it is 'not normal'.
Is it possible that your attempts at reassurance are actually backfiring?
I also wonder whether it may be useful for you to have some of the therapy sessions your workplace is offering - to unpick from your point of view what is happening between you? Or even to give you the chance to have a safe space where you can share with someone your happiness, triumphs and enjoyment of your son? Only if that wouldn't further divide the two of you though!
It must be so difficult for you to be on different pages right now but avoid being hard on yourself. It happens in every relationship at some point - parenting or otherwise. You can get through this.
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Post by flutterby on Oct 25, 2023 5:48:22 GMT
Sorry for the late reply Mrs Bear- again. I'm glad that you took my post as intended. I was worried I might upset you and that was certainly not my intention.
Adoption as a couple can be such a minefield - differing expectations, old hurts coming to the forefront (which may go back to one's own childhood), imbalances within the relationship suddenly coming into stark contrast, the list is endless. Never mind differing parenting styles and the realisation that what applies to "normal" families will probably never work for us.
Making time to be a couple is invaluable. We could never do this due to the high needs of Butterfly and lack of support. It almost led to us splitting up. We made it through, but the scars are there.
Men can get post adoption depression too, it's not just postnatal. And that is a hard place to be in.
Look after yourselves and give each other slack. A lot of it. Both your lives have been turned upside down. xx
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Post by mrsbear21 on Oct 30, 2023 22:10:26 GMT
Thanks All. Well we've had a very good half term. Everyone really wanted a rest and we kept enough everyday structure that the lack of school wasn't too great a change for Paddington. So I think we took a collective deep breath and cut each other some slack.
I did manage the whole step back and reconnect with Mr Bear outside of adoption. For his part Mr Bear actually handled the 2 trickier days of half term well and pretty much on his own (I was actually working most of half term. That may have helped because I was prevented from "trying to support" i.e. interfere too much). It was a big relief to me that he recognised he'd managed well and felt fairly good about it.
I nearly managed not to over reassure. I think Leo might be onto something there; but it's hard because my entire personality it get in there and fix it. Make him feel better. When often Mr Bear just wants to sit with his feelings. We have always had very different ways of dealing with stress and/or upset.
I think I will look at getting some therapy just for me. Ultimately my expectations/need to communicate on everything could well be overwhelming for Mr Bear and perhaps I need another outlet for that.
What I haven't done yet is head on talk about any of this with Mr Bear again. For now it feels very much like we've hit a slightly smoother patch. So I don't want to rake over it. At least not while doing a little less might actually be helping.
(And I'm much less upset now than I was when I started the thread 😊)
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