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Post by runmum on Mar 10, 2016 22:03:02 GMT
Both Monkey Boy and Jealous Dog struggle with the above. They both have dyslexia and really significant self esteem problems. MB has ADHD but he's pretty focussed at school on medication. We are fairly sure they both have foetal alcohol/drug effects but they are both very bright in terms of making an good rational argument and both score highly for comprehension and verbal stuff on all the tests. School are doing interventions but nothing ever seems to stick.
Monkey Boy has an EHCP and his attainment has gone down since they started the various interventions. He's off to secondary school in a year and a bit and we have no idea how he's going to function. He cannot even remember phase 3 phonics or the 2 times table and he cannot write a simple sentence. They both have EP reports - not all the recommendations are in place but lots of the strategies are allegedly being used. At Monkey Boy's EHCP review the EP seemed at a bit of a loss. If the boys did not have good scores for underlying intelligence we would be saying ah well there's clearly significant delay and damage and barriers to learning so perhaps they will never read or write or type so lets focus on other strengths and accept they will need to be supported into adulthood. But the EP says they should be able to learn - just no idea why it's not happening. It really feels as though they are not fulfilling their potential.
This is what we have done so far
Jealous Dog - BBC dancemat in order to learn to touch type - he completed the course but found practising tedious and refused to do it. School have now given him a laptop for lessons but he does not have a TA so he will probably just try to cope typing with 1 finger and end up writing because it's quicker. I have tried doing Toe by Toe with him in the evenings but he totally hated it and would not focus so we gave up. He has a maths tutor for an hour at home every Monday doing times tables and number bonds over and over and an English tutor on Thursday doing phonics, vocabulary and reading. He is in year 7 and still cannot do number bonds to 10.
Monkey Boy has 12 hours/week TA support and does Toe by Toe most days with the TA who has been trained - he has been doing it for 10 months and his reading age has gone down. He is just about to start touch typing. He is doing a high frequency words programme and a reading recovery programme - he does not retain the HFWs past the week when he is working on them. He cannot have tuition after school/weekend because he needs loads of sensory games etc in the evening and weekends are full of sports which he is good at - so we don't want to stop that
The EP says you need HFWs and phonics but I thought with dyslexia you should never ever allow the child to guess. Of course though some words cannot be de-coded so not sure how that works.
Any insights would be most welcome. I am now wondering if the self esteem difficulties are really getting in the way - as soon as you ask them to have a go at something independently it's almost as if their brains go into meltdown and under those conditions it's not surprising they cannot learn/demonstrate learning. Does anyone have any stories of successful strategies to support retention and working memory - other than simple over-learning which is obviously fine until you need to move on to the next thing.
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Post by serrakunda on Mar 10, 2016 23:04:52 GMT
Just a bit of a wild card suggestion
ive read a few articles about the use of coloured overlays or tinted glasses can help reduce the visual stress of dyslexia,
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Post by milly on Mar 11, 2016 14:58:42 GMT
Can't answer all your questions but dd1 has never been able to learn number bonds and times tables - she sort of knows some but will work them out or use a calculator whenever possible. I gave up trying to get her to learn. She'd know one thing like the 2 x table, and then we'd do the 3x and the 2s would go. Her sister, over four years younger soon caught up and overtook her. Dd1 is not good at maths but neither is she hopeless. She can remember strategies. Just not the facts. She wasn't that good at phonics either but learnt to read well enough (doesn't like reading but that's another story).
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Post by larsti on Mar 11, 2016 17:27:08 GMT
We took dash to Dyslexia Action centre for assessment. In his case the difficulties are more generalised so not dyslexia as such.
Anyway, online programme Nessy was recommended when we got our 30mins feedback after the report. They do a few days free trial.
Times Tables I wouldn't bother about TBH. None of our BCs ever learnt them and one of them is a physics graduate and is doing postgraduate study involving maths (actually biology dept but its all about programming and modelling and other things I don't understand!). I never learnt mine, back in the days when everyone did. It was just as you describe, I couldn't hold them in my head for any length of time. My mother used to get so frustrated trying to help me 'but you KNEW that yesterday why don't you know it now???' No idea.
Number bonds I am not sure about. Are they supposed to be able to do the sums without thinking, instantly? I am sure that is not an essential life skill either.
Toe by Toe. We have one collecting dust somewhere! The children are supposed to be motivated by success. But it doesn't seem to work in practice.
Behavioural Optometrist (sorry if I have mentioned this before!) should be able to help with the overlays and suchlike. Maybe the typing too?
HTH
Larsti
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Post by mooster on Mar 14, 2016 21:14:41 GMT
Times table and dyslexia just don't go together - often the working memory is so poor there is no chance at instant recall so don't beat yourself up.
My son was taught different strategies to help him work them out, he can complete a times table grid in under 4 minutes Ask him what 6 x 4 is and fingers are involved, ask him then what 4 x 6 is and he has to start again with fingers - it is fascinating to watch and more than a little frustrating but it is what it is!
We tried coloured overlays and they lasted for a while, often they stop the letters jumping about so it could be worth looking at. Can't remember where you live, we went to an optometrist up in London when AS was about 9 but to be honest AS's reading was so poor we weren't sure if he couldn't read or see the letters!
Our strategy was to send him to a small independent school that specialised in dyslexia and also were experienced in dealing with children with low self esteem as the two go together. The whole curriculum is taught with a dyslexic stance. Eight years later the end results was a handful of GCSE's but more importantly a well rounded boy who is doing more than ok at the next thing he has chosen to do. We are also a wee bit poorer than we might have been as we had no statement.
I read and read to him, stories in the car, stories at bed time until he was about 14 (he let me) and lots of reading from him too - the more practice at whatever level he is at the better. Fortunately the school didn't pile on other homework so we didn't end up fighting him - I have been known to fall asleep while he was reading!
If you need more info let me know.
Good luck
Mooster x
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Post by gilreth on Mar 15, 2016 12:19:00 GMT
I can certainly confirm what mooster says about times tables and dyslexia. My brother could never learn his - Mum as a Maths teacher thankfully knew all the tricks and taught him every single one to get him through (7 times table was worst I am told). He was a late reader - indeed the first proper book he read (as opposed to comic books) was of all things Lord of the Rings (following listening to radio play on tape travelling round Ireland). Mum read to him a lot longer than she did to myself (but I was correcting her mistakes due to my extreme memory at 2.5). I would hate to see him have had to try phonics - and yes guessing not good with dyslexics. But he is now an adult with a very responsible job having been to university.
Colour overlays never worked for him but my family dyslexia is auditory related - so things sound different rather than the usual visual issues. But with a lot of people I know coloured overlays or material printed on different coloured paper works really well.
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Post by rosie on Mar 15, 2016 12:24:40 GMT
I work with quite a few children with dyslexia or dyslexia type difficulties( though am not a dyslexia teacher ); but understand how frustrating the lack of progress can be at times. It sounds like they are doing loads already, and others have given good advice. The advice does seem to be over learning; and I have found that eventually some of the sound/words are retained; just much slower than other children. Our children do precision testing for HFW, but that is probably what they are already doing. Several of the children have visited a behavioural optometrist for assessment and have benefitted from coloured lenses and some have had eye tracking exercises; though I think these sessions are quite expensive. I would agree with Mooster about reading with them as much as possible at their level; encouraging an interest in books which will motivate them more too.
With the maths I would work more on helping the boys to understand how to reach the answer, as they are finding rote learning so difficult. It is useful to know number bonds and tables, but more important they have a good understanding of what this means. I would do lots of practical work to help their understanding and the strategies needed to find the answer. Numicon is very good for helping with lots of maths work; particularly Number bonds and a home set can be bought for £16-£17 on Amazon.
From what you say it does sound like low self esteem may be making things a lot harder. Do the school have a Nurture group or groups to help develop self esteem ? We have found nurture group has helped a lot of our children with low self esteem. It might be worth pushing for some help with developing self esteem.
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Post by runmum on Mar 18, 2016 19:50:03 GMT
Thank you so much everyone. All very helpful. We have looked into specialist schools with a focus on dyslexia and sensory issue etc. Nothing in the state sector and privately it was adding up to 30-40k/annum - we might get 10k from LA after a mega battle but we would be left funding the rest. We went to visit a couple and in all honesty I was not that impressed - they had not really succeeded with the children in terms of attainment - just given them understanding and a "nice time" I think provision is much better in Surrey and Sussex but we are north of London.
I agree that they need some innovative strategies and techniques to help the boys get by as I am not sure they are ever going to manage phonics and times tables. That said I do worry about what will happen if Monkey Boy never learns to read and write - obviously for pleasure he can use text to speech and audio books etc but even these days you do need to fill in a form and of course you have to read signs and directions.
Have not tried overlays keep meaning to arrange and assessment school would not do that.
I will look into some of the specific suggestions and let you all know if the Ed Psych comes up with anything out of the ordinary. I think essentially our boys just go beyond their experience in their complexity - a common story. Thanks again everyone.
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Post by pluto on Mar 19, 2016 19:55:23 GMT
What do you mean with 'over- learning'? Repetition? That is just what 'our sort of children' need so much. My youngest is very similar to yours exept a dyslexia diagnosis can not be given at this stage as he's bi-lingual. Speech therapist thinks he might have it, but as language development is different in bi-lingual children she can't be sure at this point in time. I do kumon maths and English and it works, he's making progress and it gives him confidence. www.kumon.com/centerepage/FilePreview.aspx?fd=33b7786b-f750-4d61-b8cb-9aea07494809It is a commitment every day but very good for getting a solid foundation.
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Post by pluto on Mar 20, 2016 11:50:10 GMT
Even if you explain children it still takes a lot of practise to be able to do it. There is nothing wrong in knowing 2 plus 2 is 4, the understanding comes later. Multiplication tables are very important, not for intelligent people, they can work them out quite quickly, but especially for the ones struggling in school. It just takes them way too long to figure out what 6 times 7 is and they will not be able to finish a test, so coming further behind. So yes they are very important and so is recall, even if it is only so they are able to manage money later in life.
So saying I never learned them and I'm fine is not totally fair towards out children, as most have very serious problems learning and retaining and thinking they just can work it out is unrealistic. It takes a lot of very boring old fashioned repeats to get multiplication tables to stick.
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