Beware of where you adopt from.

I agree with you up to a point, as I do not think it is possible to get all information ((and not only because it is deliberately not told), beside the fact that not only their past causes trauma, foster care, the adoption itself, contact with birth family etc etc can also be damaging to the child. I think the most important thing prospective adopters  have to realise that adoption is about commitment in the first place, not love that can come later. That most adopted children have brain damage of some sort (exposure to drugs, alcohol), that they often have low intellectual ability and have poor genetic make up, are often susceptible to mental illness including addictions. The onset is often during puberty.
The children up for adoption are  often the ones where the parents are disfunctional and the fact that the child can not be cared for by extended family is at least questionable.
Start of with the thought that you are adopting a special needs child because 99% of adopted children have special needs. Even if your child is educationally alright and is 'only stealing and lying and a bit agressive' This are very challenging children to parent, and pretending everthing is fine, giving them excuses, ignoring those behaviours is seldom working out long term. 
Children who will give the most trouble are the borderline children, not the ones who are safely in the range of learning disability, they get special schooling, respite, special clubs etc, etc. Not the ones who are avarage or above avarage, they are able to figure things out, think logically etc.
But the children who are 'too good' for services and yet can  not think logically, are the bottom ones in the class,  have poor social skills, score just below avarage, think they know everything and understand but objectively they are lost in a world what is too complex, expectations they can never met, peers who never fully accept them, learning disabilities to make even the most simple task complicated. And the fact that a child makes clever comments, has a lot to say is no indication of intellectual ability. FASD children are often verbally very strong on the first level, yet they are often not even able to lead independent liives.
But there is one factor nobody can predict and that is the level of resiliance , against all odds. 

Totally agree with all of what Pluto says, and this is where the face of modern adoption has to change.

Organisations like Auk and BAAF etc are still peddling the theory "that love is enough" and it just isn't like that anymore. They are still trying to keep prospective adopters away from the truth, which is why they did not like us posting about the realities of living with our children. They are still trying to get people too take on challenging children with little or no preparation and this is where I feel they are setting people up for a fall.

If the term "Become a Theraputic/Specialist Parent to a Traumatised child" was used in their advertising,
instead of "Have you room in your life to give a home to a needy child" which just implies they need lots of love, then prospective adopters would start out asking the questions :- 
"What is a theraputic parent?",
"What kind of problems do these children have?",
"What kind of post adoption support would be available to me and my child?",
"Would there be an adoption allowance if I find I cannot work after my child is placed due to his/her needs?".

These are the kind of things adopters need to know from the very beginning of their journey, not the kind of things to be finding out AFTER the AO has gone through and their child has passed the honeymoon period and they are on here saying "I can't cope".

Effectively these days, you are adopting a child with special needs that may or may not show up immediately, or may not show up for 11 years, as in my EDD's case. Hiding this from prospective adopters is a recipe for disaster and I think they need to know the truth from the start.

Yes there are lucky ones who have children with few problems. I was one until very recently, but as Pluto said often it's not until puberty that a lot of things kick in and where is the help then? You only have to read about the struggles of some of our members to see how hard they have to fight to get anyone to believe their child has problems, and then CAMHS and other professionals blame your parenting.

Honestly, anyone going into adoption these days needs to do it with their eyes wide open and this is where I disliked Auk wanting to shut us experienced adopters up in case we put prospectives off.

How the heck does that help the children or anyone for that matter?

phoebe-I wanted to push the like button 10 times for your post.

I was fortunate enough not to need to work when I was parenting my adopted daughter. How people who have to work AND are expected to cope with the demands of troubled children is beyond me.

Often we are a meal ticket for SS

But there is a difference between fighting for respite, a different school, a residential place for a child with moderate or severe learning disabilities (IQ under 70), because if you have really good arguments and get legally the right support you are very likely to win  the battle. The child will not be thrown into te world and expected to function, that are the children who need life long support and are unlikely to live independent lives.
If your child does not qualify for any services (butt really could do with support) and is treated by the world like a 'normal' teen, and responsibilities given and they mess it up time and time again. When you see a child deteriating because of alcohol or drug use, when you have to deal with the police, when your child has to face societies concequences while you know that they should have never 'been on the loose', but how to prevent that hapening when a child present 'bright' and talks well? The lies, the stealing, not be able to keep even the most simple job, choosing the wrong people to build relationships with, being agressive towards others, not be able to handle money because they simply do not have the maths skills to do basic culculations, the children who put a new generation into this world while you worry as this can never have a happy ending, etc, etc, etc. And that all without even the slightest chance of support.
The trauma,  the neglect that are the killers. And that makes the lives of those children even more difficult. But that is not a recognised condition by society.

Yes birth families with children with disabilities can also have very challenging situations on their hands,  but at least their children have never been neglected, and the reality is that some of of those families just have poorer parenting skills (let be realistic most people have never had an interest in disability, or worked in 'the field', or expected to have a disabled child) what makes bringing up a disabled child extra tricky, and can make the child very challenging. Some peoplle learn quickly for others it is more challenging.

I believe parents of children in the borderline group (below avarage functioning, but no mental handicap) have often most serious problems.
 

Serrakunda, you are right, we are not, as a society, caring enough about any of the groups who need additional support.
I think there is a huge difference, though, in parenting our children compared with BC with a disability. For most of those - even very damaged- children, there is a clear demonstration of their love for their parent and often an explanation of why they are the way they are. For many of us, there is never reciprocated love, and there will rarely be a complete answer to why! That makes it, in my opinion, harder to live with.

I wouldn't want to diminish the challenge faced by parents of any young person with additional needs from whatever cause. Fact is, as a society, we never want to pay for what's needed. It's very "I'm all right jack". You see that a lot with the situation of the elderly as well as the disabled. The general consensus appears to be "what will be the cheapest?", rarely "what will be the best solution?". IT's very sad.

The thing I wonder a lot is do the BP's actually get told that their life styles and addictions harm the baby? If they do do the 'tea and roses- good parts version' letters that SS have us adopters send the BP's actually help them get it? I understand how fragile the BP's are but still... I struggle to write such letters more and more as time goes on and the full extent of the damage that they did to our children unravels more.

I do think there is still a belief that the younger a child at removal and placement the less he or she will struggle. The thinking still seems to be that they won't remember anything that happened as a baby. What's not recognised is that some of the memories are implicit rather than explicit so while their brain may not explicitly remember an event something sensory - noise, smell etc - can trigger something. Kind of like that feeling of déjà vu you sometimes get.

My three were all babies. My one removed at birth, one only contact and placed with us at 5 months is definitely (so far!) my most straightforward.

My one removed at 3 months but with frequent ongoing contact until 11 months is the one most affected by his early trauma. Without a doubt. Plus all the genetic stuff - ADHD, aspergers, dyslexia - not to mention probable FAE.

Little, Fc from hospital, is not noticeably affected by early trauma but oh my word she is a very complex little girl. And tbh far more difficult and challenging to parent than either of my sons. I dread the thought of the teenage years because I just know it's going to be very, very hard going. And given bm mental health history I really worry about her more than my boys. Even though bigly is her half sib he seems not to have the same difficulties.

I was naive when I first adopted but not so by the time my daughter arrived. Life is now a round of psychs, ed psychs, paeds, salt and ot. Not what I imagined!

Im getting very, very peed off with EVERYONE around me telling me 'they wont remember' 'theyre too young' 'theyre be fine' 'Im worrying too much' 'Ill be projecting those fears on the children' 'Im looking for problems'......

tbh after having yet another conversation last night with those I thought had 'got it' from the years of my discussing, educating etc, Im giving up talking about it now.....they just dont WANT to see it, so maybe Ill start nodding and agreeing that yes, all will be happy-after-ever!!!

I do agree we just dont understand enough as a society about childhood development, effects etc.......I have a very close family member with 2 birth children, 1 is 13, just going into care and doing anything she can for weed....and the slightly older one who is sensible & intelligent but been self-harming for 3 years, 2 suicide attempts and never leaves her room - because its deemed acceptable by peers and media apparently........and they had 'secure safe' early life and apparently healthy attachments.....

All I know, is as a society we dont want to see, we dont want to understand and we dont want to invest....and are too scared of violating the right they apparently have to make mistakes, which seems to over-ride the right to keep them safe from themselves - bl**dy lazy attitude if you ask me!

And I know that if mine have problems later, no doubt those around me will blame me for projecting it on them, thinking I always 'wanted' them to have issues! NO I DONT - I just want people to be realistic so we can help them IF there are issues, or do what we can to mitigate them if at all possible.....and stop telling me kids dont remember anything!!! Just accept YOU dont blinking well know!!

Have I ranted?!@$!!!!

Ah Blaise, by now you will be developing what we called the Rosetta Stone approach to social workerese.
I am sure that there will have been a very funny thread on the old boards, as this is such a universal problem.
We were considered too old to be adopting a little one, so we were looking at 4-8 year olds and the pearly text underneath smiling school photos. (Ever wondered why so many ads have school photos? Well... there are probably no nice pix of them in other circs.)

'starting to settle well at school' = ballistic for 6 months, now just about able to cope when segregated at break time
'affectionate to adults' = indiscriminately affectionate to strange adults
'has potential to form attachment' = we're really not sure, but this seems suitably vague

It all just reminds me of the local estate agent who described an ex council house in the fiercest road in our area as 'in a wide tree-line avenue'. Yes, with the odd burning car.

I did do a reply to Blaise lat night and it went of to cyber land when a strange message appeared so I lost it, anyway ....

I think the little profiles are tricky. They are just a snapshot of what the child is about, and in fairness to SW's it is hard to get the balance right between saying enough to get prospective adopters interested enough to enquire, and not saying so much that they put them off. You just have to learn to read between the lines.

Like for example "he is a lively or active little boy" will usually mean "we think he probably has ADHD" - things like that. The profiles are just a taster and it's not until you get the whole profile (forget what it's called these days), that you get the whole picture and even then there will be unknowns that may develop later.

This brings me back to my original point, of how prospective adopters need to know that virtually every child up for adoption these days, will have some additional needs as very few come through the process unscathed. It is a question of honesty in my opinion.

The SW need to be as honest as possible with the adopters about the child, and also, the adopters need to be honest with their SW about what they think they can cope with. The bit that worries me is where SOME LA's try and minimize the child's problems and try and get the adopters to push the AO through ASAP before the challenging behaviours come to the surface after the move home. We all know adoption is cheaper than living in care and this is the bit that really bugs me.

When a child is LAC they have a huge amount of resources to access help for the child, but as soon as child is adopted, there is hardly any support and adopters are often left struggling to access the right help and support/therapy for their child and that's the bit that needs to change IMO. A child should have help/support no matter whether they are LAC or adopted and that help should be readily available until that child is an adult.

This is why I have had to let my EDD go into care, because I know she will get help a lot faster than if I kept her at home. It is still an uphill battle and I am on the phone constantly pushing and asking questions and attending meeting after meeting about what is the right type of help etc, but if she was still at home, this would be a lot slower and she would be a lot further down the list, as other children would take priority over her because she would be in a safe home with a nice mother looking after her.

The system is a farce, and adoption is the cheap option for SS, which is why the whole face of adoption has to change and like a lot of things these days we need transparency, and training and support as standard.

Ok that's my rant for the day over, but sometimes these things need to be said.  

On the subject of placing children with many needs for adoption - support is absolutely vital for this, but I believe that many children who are older and have significant issues could potentially do as well as they will ever be able to do, in an adoptive family. That obviously doesn't meant they won't have issues, and they won't be like a neurotypical child, but they may be able to reach their potential

I also am actually saddened to know that nowadays some local authorities are not exploring adoption as an option for older children, purely because of their age. I believe that age is not the most important factor in determining a childs needs, the biggest influences on needs IME are the level and length of trauma the child has experienced (whether by neglect/abuse or by drug/alcohol exposure in utero), and that complex genetic stuff, since I think it is now believed that genetics play a large role in resilience, and there are genetic components to autism, ADHD etc.

I chose to adopt older children. I chose an older child with emotional and behavioural issues and yes, I was naive, but I found that this I could do, and so I chose to adopt again, and I chose another older child with significant emotional and behavioural issues. I KNEW Kestrel had issues with post traumatic stress, I knew she was very developmentally delayed and had a learning disability, I knew she stole things, lied, had flashbacks, demanded constant attention, had attachment issues. There were things I didn't know that were important but not things that would have stopped me going ahead. And I think I was still slightly naive even then. I'm not in the slightest bit naive now, but if I were ever to adopt again, I would choose an older child (aged 3/4+) and yes, I would choose a child who has emotional issues. I don't fully know why I feel like this. I can't explain. But this is the trajectory I'm on, this is where my skills and experience lies, where I would be happy to go again, and despite the challenges which I know all too well about now, I truly know I can cope with many many things and I believe I can make a difference to a child who has a human right to be raised in a safe environment, and with a family as long as they can safely live in a family, which isn't always the case of course. I believe adoption has made a massive difference for my girls, I can't bear the thought that if I hadn't adopted them, they would have grown up in care, but that's the plain truth.

I don't think I am alone either. It may be uncommon for someone to choose this, but some people will. I am glad to know/read about several adoptive parents, both in real life and online who chose special needs children. Serrakunda on here for instance, blessed with her Simba who is older and has autism. I've read quite a few things with Avril and Ron Head in, and their adopted sons have complex medical needs/FAS. I know a couple of families personally who chose children with SN, and went in from the start with SN in mind. I'm sure there are other families on here who have chosen to adopt children with additional needs, be they medical, physical, emotional, behavioural or developmental. All of us, by choice. So I truly feel that many children with complex needs can have adoptive families. I have met or talked with a few families who want to adopt children with special needs and as long as they don't appear naive or unrealistic, am always genuinely happy to think that a child might find a committed and accepting and loving home with them

But SUPPORT is needed. It's the lack of support that makes me so angry sometimes

On a different topic that was raised in this thread, I've talked with several birth parents (whose children have special needs) who really get it, and are super helpful and understanding and have insights for me. Even about topics such as love. I was talking to a woman whose DC has autism, and I just totally indentified with her (though none of my DC have autism) - she knows what it's like to love a child who is not capable of truly loving you back in the normal parent/child reciprocal relationship way. We talked bout lack of remorse, guilt and empathy, she said how important it was to come to terms and accept your child lack of emotional connection. This was a mum who believes/knows that her child does not love her to a great extent - she believes that when she dies, her DC will not truly mourn her passing and will not feel real grief, and she has come to terms with that. She hopes her DC will able to fake grief at the funeral. So there are birth parents out there who 'get it'