ruby7
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Post by ruby7 on Mar 20, 2015 7:20:00 GMT
Well folks what can I say, the first few days have gone exceptionally well. On the first day I did say 'to zig 'I'm feeling a little excited and a little nervous and I wonder if you are feeling the same?' She said yes and that was it, ice broken. Hubby was able to get zag to give him a bit of the biscuit he was eating which was unheard of apparently. Over the past few days, we have gone to the park, read stories, played with a a mountain of trucks. Zag was a bit disorientated on one of the days and was not wanting to engage in guided play, not sure if he is used yos have two adults playing with him all day, but he was not pushing us away or running to FC quite happy just to let us be present.
When collecting zig from school she was able to show us off which was nice ' this is my new mummy and daddy' she yelled while both arms swung above her head like she had won the race.
The children are tactile and love hugs cuddles and holding hands. They sat on our laps for two hours yesterday of their own accord. we have not needed our bubbles as they are not unsure of us or hesitant at all.
One thing I find intresting is towards the end of the our visit zig is reaching for FC, not in a way where she lets go of us, but wants to hold her as well. So while on my lap yesterday, after an hour she stretched out her hand behind her to FC. Also,on the first day, she took down the Mother's Day card for FC ( I got one too!) staying to her ' I should have done a picture on this page for you' and promptly drew a picture and wrote I love you. Again this was just at the end when we were leaving. I'm sure there are thousands of ways to analyse what this is about, but I intrested in your thoughts.
The breakfast and bedtime routine start soon!
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Post by moo on Mar 20, 2015 7:58:55 GMT
Oohhh great so pleased everything is going well.... sounding really positive.... I wouldn't try to over analayse things.... both will be feeling a mixture of 'huge' uncertainties of that you can be sure.... but the openness is very good at this early stage.... congratulations mummy & daddy xxxx
Enjoy xxxxx
Xx moo xx
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Post by loadsofbubs on Mar 20, 2015 8:04:47 GMT
to you these are 'your' children. to the children you are a stranger who is being nice to them and who they have been told will be looking after them forever (a concept that small children simply don't understand). so my guess is they are seeking reassurance from their foster carer that you are safe, that its ok to be nice to you, that they still love the foster carer and that the foster carer still loves them. its a scary scary place these little people are in even if they are appearing relaxed and happy in your company. from a survival point of view they will be hedging their bets and playing their best behaviour that will get you on side. sounds cynical and dont mean to burst any bubbles, but at this point in time the loyalty to the foster care will still be huge, and rightly so, and any perceived loyalty, affection etc for you is probably the children trying to keep themselves safe. children are very vulnerable and know they need to be kept safe, but when their world is crashing down around them they often use behaviour to make themselves feel safer and to ensure that the adults around them keep them safe too. I can still remember the terror of moving as a child, I did it on average every 2 years, and I did it with my parents each time, but I was still terrified. these little people are moving away from everything and everyone they know and love, so you can multiply that terror many times over.
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ruby7
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Post by ruby7 on Mar 20, 2015 8:27:42 GMT
I have no worries about them reaching for FC I think it's really healthy, these children are loved and they know it. No, wont over analyse but it good to know other people perspectives as there might be something I've not considered, just trying to be reflective. Loadofbubs, this is really good way of framing it, I am under no illusions that this is best behaviou!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 11:19:54 GMT
Sounds like a great start Ruby and how fab that Zig introduced you as her new mum and dad, that must have been great to hear. I agree with the others it's great that they are still looking to the FC for reassurance, shows they are loved and secure with her. I can't top LOB's advice, spot on as usual and spoken from years of experience of moving children on. Take heed as she knows what she is talking about. Looking forward to hearing more about your LO's. 
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Post by pluto on Mar 20, 2015 11:29:41 GMT
You can always turn those things to two sides, and you never know which was right until they have lived with you for considerable time. You can say they feel safe with fc and have good attachments, fc give permission to accept you and they feel safe enough to start transfering this bond to you. On the other hand you can say how unsettling, those kids accept you from day one, even physical contact. They are superfacial friendly and they will show the same friendlyness to everyone, those kids have no secure attachment and are showing the classical signs of children who will have trouble forming meaningfull attachments.
And so you can look at every behaviour at 2 sides, this is not a good thing to do at the moment, just enjoy it. You know you are taking 2 children who hurt badly, there might be a honeymoon when they come home they might be challenging from day one. Or they might easily adjust and never give you the sort of trouble you read on adoption boards.
Nobody can really predict at this stage how things will develop. All what you know about those kids might change in a heart beat as it is not uncommen children ending up with diagnosis you did not expected. On the other hand there are many children who stay 'mainstream' whatever that means.
Just enjoy the moment, observe the children carefully and if you start to worry about certain behaviours write them down, with date. You will be very busy the coming time, it will be a shock to the system and you will be confronted with yourself, at times you will be shocked because you 'see your mother' into yourself when correcting behaviours towards the children, at times you might wonder why this child can make you so angry while you have always be that layed back person. You will be able to do loads of things 'forbidden' for adults, like going around soft playgrounds, swinging, running, swimming in the part with the slides and fontains. You will have to deal with all sort of people asking inappropiate questions and giving 'advise' what to do next. You might loose friends because their lives take a different turn, you might gain new friends. You might love those children from the beginning or you might struggle to love them, that is both oke. Your feelings might be all over the place because it is a huge commitment taking on other peoples kids and 'make them your own'. The children will take over your mannerisms, the way you do things, that can be funny to observe.
The coming time you will have involvement from ss, you might not always agree with them, that can be stressfull at times. My adoption was contested last minute that was very stressfull and took over a year to solve.
You have started really well, soon they will be home forever.
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Post by knight on Mar 20, 2015 18:49:25 GMT
Sounds like things are going really well, a very good start indeed; lovely to read. Enjoy the next few days as things build up x
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ruby7
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Post by ruby7 on Mar 21, 2015 22:13:10 GMT
Behind the eyes of this little girl so much is going on, displaying and saying that she likes us but then trying to explain that the Mother's Day card she gave was something they all had to write in school, I feel she is trying to please, trying to make us like her by being effectionate and helpful, but then at times what feels like genuine wants ....like to cuddle up and watch telly, asking me all day If we can still do that in the evening. Zag bit disorentated one of the days and would not really engage in directed play but happy to let us sit with him, but then a very big run and hug for hubby when he was collected from nursery....but seems to be moany only with fc's and shrieking with laughter and acting 'unspoilt' when alone with us. Not analysing just observing, trying to connect with my own feelings, if I come away feeling confused about how they are acting and ' performing' then I guess that might be an indication of how they are feeling? What do we say at the first review...?
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Post by leo on Mar 22, 2015 8:37:15 GMT
I'd say the type of things you've said here; that you can see they are confused and trying to please at the moment, how you will let them take their time to establish some trust in you rather than push them, how you will help them to grieve for FC (and maybe talk about plans for contact in the first few weeks - phone calls or Skype maybe at first), how you will continue to be steady and reliable and consistent so they can feel as safe as possible during this very traumatic time.
I'd also maybe talk about how you can see they need time at home with you rather than being rushed back into school and nursery; this can be a contentious point even among adopters. I know some say they need stimulation and some 'normality' but personally I go with the argument that they need very little stimulation for quite a while so their bodies can learn to be calm and regulated when with you and also so they begin to learn you are the important person in their lives now (hard though that is for them, I do think it is important).
I'm really surprised they have still been at school/nursery - but maybe this has changed in the time since I adopted my two.
The 'being moany' with FC is probably him showing how distressed he is - to the only person he feels comfortable enough to do this with at the moment. The laughter is, as you say, probably an attempt to 'keep you on side' while he's still very unsure and confused about you and who/what you are.
When I read your first post about Zig being able to engage with you in an expression of our/her feelings I was really happy for you - that's such a positive sign not only for your relationship with her but also her ability to understand and express her own emotions. Early days I know, but my two certainly wouldn't have been able to engage in even a simple conversation such as that at a similar age.
I certainly came home from each day of intros confused and disorientated and I think you are right, you are probably picking this up from the children. Zig sounds as if she is perhaps trying to make a bridge between you and the Foster Carer (which I think is positive again as she is not abandoning the FC entirely and maybe has some awareness of the huge changes happening). Have you a photo of her with the FC that you can put into her new bedroom or keep displayed somewhere?
It's so very hard to manage all the feelings flying around - the children's, yours, the FCs, even the SW's sometimes I think! That intensity of feelings will pass but it could take a while and it is draining to maintain the outwardly calm and coping image when you may also be in turmoil. Make sure you get enough rest, have some time to talk to friends or family but also time to just switch off and let your own body recover from the stress of each day so you have enough energy to see you through the coming weeks and months.
I'm really pleased it's going well for you.
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ruby7
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Post by ruby7 on Mar 24, 2015 19:02:13 GMT
Review went well, all a bit emotional as FC sad....had some great long days out in the sunshine with children...not dramas as such. zig is emotionally literate and able to say how she is feeling albeit in writing at times. Zag is starting to get cranky. He was a Bit unwell so put it down to that. But last few days anytime male Fc is around he gets even more cranky and moany and won't let us very near him. Male Fc is not really helping as when zag is alone with us and we manage to comfort him, he will then enter the room and zag starts up again. We completely understand how hard this is for them and they have done so well in preparing these children....
Bit worried about the last day, have a vision of the FC family waving us off and zag screaming for male FC while we drive off. What to do??? I just think it's intresting that he is not like that with us at all and only displays this behaviour at times when male FC enters the room or is around and calls for him, but recently even when he is comforted by male FC it's not enough he is still cranky....he obviously knows something in going on but not able to articulate....behaviour is the first language....
How do we deal with the last day to minimise zags distress?
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Post by leo on Mar 24, 2015 21:58:09 GMT
I'd keep it very short. Have all stuff (except one last bag with teddy and pyjamas in) taken away on previous days so there is no packing/standing around. Agree beforehand whether FC will say goodbye in the house then stay in there or whether they will come out to the driveway and wave. Whichever it is, make it short, give them a hug yourself if they'll let you then get them in their car seats and drive off.
Were you able to agree a plan for meeting/contacting FC over the next few weeks? If so, then as you drive away I'd be saying, 'I understand that this is really hard, we will be seeing them again/Skyping them on ...'
I think once you leave, keep the day very calm (hopefully it's not too long a journey to be able to go straight home) and then very structured/close once home. By mid afternoon maybe all on the sofa with a DVD, easy finger food type stuff for tea (go for real comfort food). Be prepared for the emotional stress to either make their behaviour wired and manic or be the other extreme and physically tired or withdrawn.
It's so hard to see them distressed and it can be a very difficult day as part of you is on Cloud 9 that you finally have your family and are starting the rest of your life, while you know and feel the pain of your children who are ending their lives as they know it.
Will the FC have their Social Worker in the background to support them after the children leave? It sounds really harsh but you have to almost blank out the pain of the FC (other than storing away the knowledge that they obviously really cared for your children) and remember that they are adults who can find their own ways to deal with the pain. Your job is to be there 100% for your children on that day - and if that means stopping for a hug and a cry with them two miles down the road then do it.
It is distressing for all and I don't think there is a 'good' way to do it. I hope it goes the best it can and that your first few days and weeks at home together give you glimpses of your future happy times together as a family.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 12:11:21 GMT
Agree with Leo. You should discuss last day picking up arrangements with the FC beforehand.
Usually it is advisable to arrive shortly after breakfast time. FC should have packed last minute things already and it is better to keep it short and sweet, no going in for coffee as that just drags it out and makes it even harder to leave. FC's will have said their final goodbyes the night before and you all need to make the transfer as quick and easy as possible to not upset the LO's who will not really realise what is happening until later on when they are not going back to the FC's.
They will probably think they are going on another nice day out with their new friends. Discuss with FC whether she wants to wave you off or stay inside. Depends on whether she feels she can hold it together or not with a cheery smiley face until you are out of sight, if not then it might be better for them to stay inside as you don't want the childrens last memory to be of FC crying. Adults have to put on a brave face for kiddies sake, hence the need to leave promptly and not drag things out if possible.
it is hard and even harder to not become emotional, but it has to be done, so as quickly as possible is my advice, then as Leo said, a nice quiet time at home with a relaxing bath and as normal a bedtime routine as possible following what their routine was in FC. Do try and go to bed early yourselves as you may be up during the night depending on how LO's sleep and a good tip is to get yourselves up washed and dressed in the morning before LO's waken up as they may be tearful, scared and need holding/comforting on waking and realising they are somewhere other than where they are used to, so being dressed already with a coffee or breakfast inside you will help.
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Post by chotimonkey on Mar 25, 2015 13:42:43 GMT
Agree with Leo and jmk... Talk to FC before, agree to make it super quick, also agree with FC when you will call/ text that eve. Eg we texted when we were home, phoned in the eve to let them know how lo had been, what they'd eaten, how they'd settled at night etc, and agreed to a fairly quick next contact visit.
Also when home keep it really low key, involve them in unpacking a few key items and choosing where they want their things. Another adopter I know who had a three. Year old spent the afternoon playing hide and seek with a favourite toy around the house which worked nicely for a gentle way of introducing them to house, mingling old and new and openong up a conversation (through the soft toy) about which bits of the house lo liked best.
V exciting and emotional times. hooe it goes ok xx
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Post by chotimonkey on Mar 25, 2015 13:46:11 GMT
Also once you are home, ii don't know much about 6 year olds, but f you want to know anything about stuff to do with 3 year olds, please ask as mine are 2,3 and 4 so this is my mastermind specialist area  ?
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Post by moo on Mar 26, 2015 6:24:19 GMT
Good Luck Ruby..... some great advice...
Kept mine short arrived at 9 out to car & straight home forever xx!!
As choti says do pm or post for coping strategys....
Hugs xx
Xx moo xx
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Post by loadsofbubs on Mar 26, 2015 9:09:21 GMT
when I see off a baby I usually say a 9.30am send off. any earlier and the risk is the sw wont make it in time, might get caught up in traffic etc and that delays everything. my son is always gone to college, no other family members or friends present. not necessary becoz they have all done their goodbyes and the more people there the harder it is for the child, the family, and frankly it would be for me too. there is always a social worker there for handover, usually the child care sw, but has also been mine once (first one) and adoption a couple of times. parents arrive about 5-10 mins before the sw so the child doesn't just feel like they are being ripped away (follows pattern from intros where parents arrive for their own days out with child and stay in hosue for a bit before going out). parents fill up the car while waiting for the sw ans as soon as sw walks up the drive I am outside and looking to put the child in the car too. I usually carry the child out to the car (rather than parents) and put them into their car seat, give them a kiss goodbye, parents get in the car and off they go. I do usually wave off. but then I don't go all teary either. I then send the sw packing becoz frankly if I was going to have a melt down I'd rather go and see a friend to do that! (I don't usually do melt downs over moving babies on)
but the key is quick, low key, as few other people involved as possible and, only if the fc needs it, then someone to support them too but not to get involved in the sending off of the child. a sw is I think a legal requirement for the official handover, if not then it is our LA policy, but is a good idea anyway to make sure things go smoothly, particularly where there are any concerns on either side. they shouldn't get involved unless needed, just be there in the background.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 15:59:47 GMT
We had no SW's there for our handover LOB's although it all went smoothly as FC was very experienced and we did it quickly and smoothly with minimum fuss.
A very strange sensation of happiness and sadness at the same time.
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Post by loadsofbubs on Mar 26, 2015 16:46:32 GMT
it might just be a local thing, but I still think its wise in case of any problems. was told its a legal requirement, but might just be a good practice requirement for this LA. the only one I didn't have a sw present at was the bbs, now there was a handover that would have benefitted form a sw present!
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ruby7
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Post by ruby7 on Mar 26, 2015 19:49:34 GMT
As the move in date draws nearer zig is displaying confused behaviour, and is struggling to know which emotions to express, she made a day trip to visit new school and home. She was 'climbing the walls' today when we loaded her stuff in the car. I just sat with her and kept asking if she wanted me to leave which she did not. Hubby says what if on the last day she cries and says she really does not want to go....had a long long chat with him.....we realise we have been sucked into the sadness vortex of the fc and the chaos of the children. When we hug her we are radiating her confusion and sadness back out at her. They don't need that they needs our happy warm love vibes, not our poor you vibes....off home this weekend, move in date next week. Any further words of encouragement, advice, reassurance?
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Post by pluto on Mar 26, 2015 21:38:53 GMT
It is better not to ask or she want you to leave, that gives her controle and makes her feel unsafe. You feel if you're too close in that case give the child more space. There is no way back exept if you pull out, my child did not want to go, I took him by the hand and into the car where he cried and cried. Sometimes that is the case, try to make it as short as possible.
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Post by moo on Mar 27, 2015 6:59:36 GMT
Hugs ruby very scary times for all..... Zig is clearly aware of how huge all this is..... agree with pluto try not to give control away zig will need to feel safe she will need to have boundaries of you in charge with start & stop points in order to trust & wrap herself in.....
Diversion may help or guessing about how this is making her feel...... adding in positives fir any negatives that are there..... hth xxx
Xx moo xx
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Post by kstar on Mar 27, 2015 7:02:17 GMT
Starlet was a little ball of anxiety the day we left FC for good (she was also six). We had a two hour drive home, so in the end we stopped three times - once for the park, once for chocolate cake and once to blow bubbles. All activities we had done before and which gave us the chance for gentle contact and some giggles. Somehow taking our time gave her the chance to process what was happening and made arriving here so much easier. I know that wouldn't work for everyone, I hadn't planned it that way we just went with the flow. I think two hours sitting there with no physical movement or the gentle hugs and physical contact she needed would have been torture for her.
She also liked the map her social worker gave her with the route highlighted on it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 8:23:29 GMT
At 6 Zig has some awareness of what is about to happen and is probably terrified. It is nothing personal about you and or DH, but she is about to be taken from her home, from her FC, who she feels safe and secure with and that is terrifying for anyone let alone a 6 year old.
You adults need to try and keep your own anxieties hidden because she will pick up on these and she will not feel safe. She needs to see you as calm and in control as possible, even if inside you are shaking. It is a big deal for all of you, but she is a child and needs to know that her new parents are in control and that they are going to look after her and keep her safe forever.
As Moo says, thinking out loud is useful, saying things like "I know this is hard for you" etc or "I wonder if you are feeling a bit scared" etc, will give a voice to how she is feeling and will give her permission to talk about her feelings and maybe she will share them with you.
Zag will be feeling similar, but at his age, he will not be able to voice his concerns but will be picking up on Zig's anxieties.
If you haven't done so already, it might be a good idea to have a read of the pinned threads at the top of the approved adopters boards about intro's and beyond. There is a lot of good advice in there about how to handle the transition and early days after LO's come home.
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ruby7
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Post by ruby7 on Mar 27, 2015 19:50:06 GMT
Thank-you all. I'm taking notes....zig decided to tell me all about her trauma on the walk to school, in a matter of fact way.....I thanked her for telling me and was so pleased she has., I told her this was part of her history and It was nice that she wanted to tell me..she then just skipped off into school and we were left jaw dragging on the village floor ...felt we had been punched in the stomach. I felt she was saying,...this is me...my history...this is what I did to protect my brother...I know why I need you and daddy as my new parents....because my 'actual' ( her word) mummy and daddy could not keep me safe......all this happens on her last day of school....woozer
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Post by serrakunda on Mar 27, 2015 19:58:36 GMT
Oh ruby, Simba does this to me all the time, even now, usually in the most inappropriate place, preferably when we have an audience. He tells me mostly feelings as he seems to have few, if any, real memories.
It's terribly hard to hear, and to be honest of all the things that simba does, it's what I find the hardest to deal with. but good that she is able to talk to you, it's the start of trust between you.
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Post by annie70 on Mar 27, 2015 22:46:01 GMT
Hi Ruby
It's lovely reading your intros for Zig and Zag and I just wanted to add our experience of bringing home a 6 yo in case it helps. We were away from home - a 3 hour drive - so we had stayed locally but taken Zippy and his FC to visit our real house 4 days before move day - we took most of his stuff that day so not much to take on moving day.
We took one of his soft toys to ours on the visit so that it could look after his new room - stake a claim! We also gave him a soft toy at the start of intros which later proved useful for talking about emotions when he moved in - the toy had never lived there / didn't know us either so he could express what it was feeling without risking upsetting us...
The last night with the FCs we left early so that they could have a goodbye meal and the normal bedtime routine. Then we arrive on move day after breakfast - final stuff was put in the car and we were away. The foster family and the neighbours waved goodbye cheerily and he dissolved into tears. He cried for around 10 minutes each hour on the way home and I held his hand and said it was ok to be upset and we would see them again a month later (good to get a date arranged for this before moving).
So I guess I am saying that Zig probably will cry - but that it is just part of the process - it's another loss for her / them and in a way it's good to let them cry and say it's ok and normal to be upset and that FCs love them etc etc. And I didn't stop myself from crying with him for part of it so he could see I empathised with him. I agree with the others that you make a quick getaway as otherwise you risk the FCs showing emotions and that would make it worse...
When we got home we had delivery pizza and DVDs / cuddles on the sofa - we still do the family DVD time 16 months later and he remembers 'inventing' it!
I am surprised that Zig has been at school - Zippy was off school for the whole of intros and then off for 5 weeks once we got home to give us a chance to bond... is Zig starting back after Easter? I would think seriously about whether you can keep her with you for a month at least as it was so important for our attachments to each other. (apologies if you have posted about this - just skimmed your post as knackered!)...
If you want to PM me (even in a few weeks / months once you are settled) please do and if I think of anything else I will let you know. Axx
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Post by moo on Mar 28, 2015 6:28:18 GMT
Great post from annie.... totally agree about school.... it is good to keep / claim a routine but it does seriously interfear with bonding & funnelling... At boys school most of the 3r's are done in the mornings ( literacy numeracy etc ) I would recommend maybe doing mornings only..... you could build up to a couple of days staying for lunch the other 3 going home for lunch.... not returning in the afternoon!?? We were lucky boys were only at play school with f/c.... soon put a stop to it.... had to be very firm with s/w tho they wanted the routine kept.... I am a firm believer in claiming your own routines... the boys had been thro enough & even tho very young they were very able to spot life had moved on forever & nothing was the same anymore !! In a very good & positive way xx so the "familiar routine from before " argument was shot out of the water completely!?!?
Good Luck & trust your gut xx
Xx moo xx
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Post by kstar on Mar 28, 2015 8:02:12 GMT
Half days were a godsend for us too, but we did it the opposite way round - she only went in for the fun stuff and avoided the stress factors of reading etc. Slowly they introduced reading one to one, then maths one to one, then only in the last two weeks of term (after about five weeks of slowly building up) did she do full weeks. She got far more out of being there for things like PE and art, where she could really bond with the teacher and the other children, and I figured we could always catch up in the holidays, which we did.
I always made it clear to Starlet's primary even before she arrived that I needed those first few months to be on my terms - so we had a plan building up from a couple of hours three times a week, but I didn't stick to it rigidly. If we had the chance to go and do something (eg when the local play farm who were brilliant with us when she first arrived) had lambs to be fed and Starlet had had a bad night... You know what at the that moment she needed the pet therapy more then she needed adding up.
However, she wouldn't have coped with no school at all - she needed to be with other children and in a less intense environment. With just the two of us at home, there was a lot of pressure on her to attach to me quickly and sometimes we both needed a break from that. She kept asking to go full time at school but I stuck to my guns and refused... There was a limit to how long I could take off and I had to make the most of that time because I can never get it back!
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Post by annie70 on Mar 29, 2015 20:28:49 GMT
ooh yes - agree with Starlet, although Zippy had 5 weeks off school (over Xmas holidays too), we did as much as we could to be around other children and invited friends with kids over to play within 10 days... otherwise it can feel like the new life is void of new friends.
We did half days too for 3 weeks at the start of term - mornings only, phasing up to mornings plus lunch and then full days at the end of the last week. Axx
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ruby7
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Post by ruby7 on Apr 1, 2015 15:13:49 GMT
Well folks, the collection day went ok, fc's held it together and although zag was a bit cranky going into the car once on the road all was fine. Got home had lunch, unpacked ( was much more than I would have wanted to take on the last day but hey ) dinner went fine, bed time was fine, both slept right through, hubby spelt through alarm for first time in his life! I was awake from 235am after hearing zig cough....welcome to motherhood right? Had couple of trips to park ....and factored in some quiet time for All during the day....also I bow to your wisdom, I'm so glad I made a batch of tomato sauce and shaped mince into rounds and balls...in the freezer, not because I don't have time to cook it, but it's nice that I don't need to....
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