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Post by lilyofthevalley on Jan 27, 2015 18:21:16 GMT
I have to admit it, I'm beginning to worry. My AS, his wife, and their child (coming up for 2) who lives with them. It is such a sad story. My AS is soon to be 30 years old. When I adopted him and his sister they were 6 and 7 years old. He is the older one. Both had been neglected and abused in their parental home and then further abused and neglected in foster care. Both had been engaged in serious criminal behaviour by the time they came to me although I did not know it at that time. Both birth parents were alcoholics and involved in criminal behaviour, especially the father, who spent much time in prison. There had been terrible domestic violence in their home. Both my AS and AD were diagnosed eventually with ADHD and FAE. I discovered that my son was especially affected by his birth mother's drinking. It did become apparent to me over time that, although he was of normal intelligence, he was brain damaged. He went into foster care when he was nearly 16 after he menaced me with a cigarette lighter. He had a number of placements that all ended due to his behaviour and he eventually ended up in a homeless hostel. This is where he met his girlfriend, whom he would go on to marry. She has as many problems, if not more, than him. It makes them a very at risk couple. My daughter in law's mother had 8 children. They were all in care. They have been a notorious family, very well known to the agencies. My AS told me that the daily city newspaper once had a front page article with the title 'Is this the worst family in *?' They provide the worst sort of role models. In this family there is very little expectation that adults work, instead there is very much a benefits culture. No value is placed on education and educational standards are low. The only role of women is to have babies. Going into prison is an occupational hazard. The police are the enemy. So are the social work department. There is nothing unusual about your children going in and out of care. You play the system, make yourself intentionally homeless, use your children as pawns to keep getting rehoused. Her mother and stepfather were charged at one time with using their nice rented house (courtesy of taxpayers) as a cannabis factory. By the age of 19, my AS had a child. They were not coping but went on to have two more in quick succession. I was the one to alert the agencies to the risks to the children. Phone calls and reports. The children went into care on a couple of occasions but were returned home. They eventually went into longterm care. Meanwhile they had another child who went into care at birth and went for adoption. Then they had another child. She went into care at birth too. However there was a new social worker involved at this time. She was new to the area, had not been involved in past events, and had rosy coloured glasses. I think she thought they'd been treated rather badly. To my surprise, instead of the child going for adoption, her plan was to have her home with them. I was not consulted. I had been consulted about the future of the fourth child and had said I thought it would be a gamble to let her return home to them. And so this child has been home with them for a year. They were viewed as a great success and supervision was terminated, after about 10 years of social work supervision. I visited them a couple of days ago. They are very aggrieved as the social worker turned up on an unscheduled and unannounced visit. I believe that concerns are beginning to filter through. The child has a nursery placement three days a week. It sounds like her attendance has dropped off. I explained to them the importance of an excellent attendance record and the benefit to the child, who loves going, but my daughter in law just got annoyed with me. She can't see the problem if they let the nursery know she won't be going. She is also furious that concerns have been expressed about the company they are keeping as they are members of her family. She has a skewed view of the world and doesn't see that there is something wrong if all the children are removed from a family or if there are serious concerns about parenting or behavioural issues. From her point of view, how dare the social workers dictate who she can associate with in her extended family. It is obvious to me that my son does all the parenting as before. He adores his little girl and at a minimal level she is OK. At the moment the big pluses are that there is only the one child and that my daughter in law is not obviously volatile, extremely moody and frankly scary as she was previously. However it is very clear that she suffers from personality disorders. I am finding myself worrying about the future for the little girl. I wish she had gone for adoption. She would have had a better life. I am beginning to think that, when she is a bit older, maybe I shall have to share the care with them, have her at weekends and parts of holidays. Help her with homework, encourage her educationally, give her interesting experiences, involve her in activities, take her to see her aunty. However, if things deteriorate, she would have to go for adoption. I am 65 now and I am too old. She would need younger and loving adoptive parents. But it's sad to be thinking about this possibility, isn't it? Lily
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Post by corkwing on Jan 27, 2015 19:14:31 GMT
Yep, terribly sad. Particularly sad that she cannot see that anything needs to change.
Sending you hugs, Lily.
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Post by serrakunda on Jan 27, 2015 19:20:49 GMT
((((((Lily)))))))
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Post by wibbley on Jan 27, 2015 21:25:16 GMT
Very tough
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Post by lemonade on Jan 27, 2015 22:51:02 GMT
Thank you for sharing Lily of the Valley sooo sad and sooo true, reading your thoughts which are so very similar to mine.
My two were 6 & 7 when they came to live with us. Eldest met and married had a child but couldn't settle, was taking child to risky places / adults. I too had to make the call to SS. AD made herself homeless when she left husband and child and went off sofa surfing and found out she was pregnant with second child, was mixing with risky adults, working the benefit system, wanting lots of babies so lots of child benefit, getting re house, with free items like beds, washer, cooker, etc
I am 55 and considering Special Kinship care for youngest grandson who is currently in foster care, however those with rose coloured specs may return him to AD, who is already in new relationship since leaving previous bf to go into women's refuge!
I too worry about grandsons future and just hope the courts make the right decision for him to give him a chance.
Sending hugs and strength.
Love Lemonade x
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Post by mooster on Jan 28, 2015 8:08:25 GMT
So hard, so hard - sending you hugs.
Mooster x
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 8:12:18 GMT
So sad Lily, that history repeats itself despite your best efforts. It's almost written in stone and a path that they have to go down. I think that's what's so depressing that despite being given every chance they cannot seem to change, they damage is often done before birth and is often irreparable. Just sad that they keep on having more children and the cycle continues.
Hugs to you xx
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Post by peartree on Jan 28, 2015 23:03:06 GMT
Oh lily my friend and lemonade. I'm so sorry to read this is going this way. It's so sad We we hoped so much
What a horrible mess. We are too afraid for our son as he gets increasingly involved with a very dangerous and horrible girl friend. On one hand as nice as pie, on the other very unstable.
Totally unhealthy mix.
Blossom just borrows a bf or gf for a time and them moves on, thank goodness for contraception. What a horrible awful mess
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 20:56:24 GMT
Hi Lily , I have read many of your posts on auk.You have endured so many difficult times , your love and support for your Children is truly Inspiring .
I have a lot of sympathy for your current situation with your young Grandaughter.My adopted daughter had a baby at 17 with a nazi loving drug addict 10 years older than her. They are totally toxic together but SS decided they should be given chance to parent their little boy.
Like you, I felt the best way was to try and support them by being available for babysitting whenever needed . We got in to a routine of having the baby from Friday night through to Late Sunday evening . I Washed the baby's clothes, ironed and returned them ( never to be seen again as they got chucked in a pile in the corner ) I would buy new ones on eBay always send back a weeks supply of clean clothes ( I couldn't bare to see him sally and dirty).We ( hubby and I)put money on the electric when they spent it on drugs . We got the shopping.We gave them lifts to ensure they kept health check appointments.
Tbh it was the only way I could cope with handing the mite back through the patio window on Sunday evening. But really we were just masking the problems , so social services thought they were coping much better than they were.Possibly that's why he remained with them for 10 months. I feel a certain amount of guilt about that.
Certainly if you feel you are strong enough , filling in some of the missing nurturing will hugely benefit your Grandaughter . But I would be worried about you . You will become even more attached to your Grandaughter and the situation becomes totally impossible when you are witness to situations that you know are so damaging for her and have to report them.
If it becomes necessary to place your Grandaughter in care you will be approached by SS . There are huge financial implications - in our case the SGO allowance was withdrawn once the SGO had been agreed ! Not to mention the emotional implications of having to do the whole parenting a traumatised child again . God knows there are many days when I feel like that . I am 51 with a very supportive husband !
You sound like such a lovely person I am sure you will be unable to stand back and do nothing .It's so tough for you. Sending virtual hugs Lily x
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Post by Janie2 on Jan 30, 2015 21:52:16 GMT
Hello Lily so sorry to read of your concerns and worries. I know you were really hopeful of this remaining child being properly cared for by your son and DIL. Be careful Lily, you cannot take on too much in the upbringing of this child. I know you will want to step in and help, in more ways than a grandparent does, but your health will suffer, both physically and mentally, if you take on too much. You may feel torn about having to report to SS any concerns you may have. I think I would help to a certain degree, but report to SS any problems. It seems the cycle of neglet is an ever turning wheel in some lives, however hard we try to break it. I send heartfelt hugs and strength. Spring xx
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Post by aprilshowers on Jan 31, 2015 7:33:41 GMT
LoV, Lemonade & penny4them......(((((()))))))
LoV, you have worried for many years about your AS and DiL, the sadness when you had to raise concerns, when you had to facilitate handing over the tiny mites and the rages from AS and DiL, how much more can you do for them. If DiL does not have any more then maybe your AS can parent and provide good enough for this little one and with your support and that of your DD maybe this will be ok, but sadly the generational neglect is a biggie and if they cant see that things need to change then I really don't know how anyone can change it.
Our own family is becoming more complicated and our second grandchild is due in the summer, now DS does not see or have anything to do with his first son who is now 3 years old, but this child is loved and cared for by his mum and family...not to what my standards would be but he is doing ok, he is attending nursery/pre school, he gets taken out/on hols and has a big network around him, we sadly have no contact at all with him, but his mum has recently started to send photo's one for each moth but no word from her, most of what I find out is via social networks, but Christmas birthday and easter I send cards/pressies and I am in the middle of making up a photo album so he knows who these people that send him stuff are.
After a pregnancy then mis-carriage of our youngest DD it brings it home how easy it is for them to just go on and have babies, youngest DD refused any form of contraception and our middle DD has just had her implant removed...sadly it is likely that if either of them were to have a child then that child may well be removed, one is in FC and the other in hostel, middle DD is still volatile/aggressive/angry and using drugs, and sounds very like a lot of girlfriends we speak about, but she is my daughter and even though I would help with a baby she really would not have me, youngest might have let me help, but she is in such a mixed up place, at the time of her pregnancy she was not even talking to me, just making accusations about her many years of mistreatment at my hands.......nothing will change for my children, they are set in that mind frame and it is so very like their birth parents who met in a homeless hostel at 14 and 16, who were supported by SS and housed and the went on to have three children in succession despite SS concerns and involvement, house was used for drug dealing lots of DV, serious neglect and eventual removal at 5, 3 1/2, 2 1/2...
But as grandparents we will do what we can and we will have heavy hearts but there is very little we can do to change the outcome especially as some of us are so wrung out with the raising of our children and our own health is shakey we can only offer a little.
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Post by peartree on Jan 31, 2015 10:08:35 GMT
Liking all the support Hope lily and April lemonade and penny4them you're feeling comfort from knowing others in similar situations
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Post by larsti on Jan 31, 2015 13:07:38 GMT
Hugs to all of you with grandchildren. At least you can support each other. When we adopt we know it is for life (obviously) but we don't know what life is going to be like :-(
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Post by lilyofthevalley on Jan 31, 2015 21:54:11 GMT
Hello everyone Thank you for all the support and for the private message of support too. It does help to know that others are in similar situations. I also have a friend who has an AD of similar age to my AS. In fact they had very similar problems growing up. Her AD had a child and the child suffered serious neglect and was in and out of care. One of her older birth children, a son who was single, took on the permanent care of this little girl and the arrangement has worked out very well. The mother however has pretty much abandoned her. Many of you have made comments or had experiences that I can really relate to. Lemonade, your comments about having babies to manipulate the housing and benefit system, is just what my daughter in law does and so does her mother to this day. And the major problem of associating with risky adults is apparent again. Peartree, I really empathise with your worries about Partridge's girlfriend. The real danger is if they then have a child because you have two very vulnerable young people and together they become an at risk couple. Contraception becomes all important. If they can be persuaded to guard against pregnancies when they are immature and irresponsible and ill prepared for parenthood, so much the better. Penny4them, I could relate to some of your experiences. In particular, the providing of new clothes and never seeing them again. This has often happened to me over the years. I have spent a lot of money providing clothing, often chosen by them, and have never seen them again. I have often wondered what happens to them. It makes me reluctant now to provide more clothing as I feel my money is wasted. There are other issues with toys and books. The children have always had many toys arranged round their bedrooms. But that's what they were, arranged, on display, to be viewed by visiting social workers, but not actually played with. One of my granddaughters once told me that they were forbidden to play with the toys. Similarly the social workers arranged for a charity to provide them with a free book once a month for the little girl but I don't believe they ever read to her, the books are just stored away but look good to the casual visitor. I take my own books to read when I visit but I know from bitter experience that they learn nothing from seeing how much their child enjoys being read to. Spring and Penny4them, it is such a hard balancing act to develop a relationship with the child, recognise one's own limitations, be prepared if necessary to report concerns to the authorities and face the consequences. It can be heartbreaking. My AD refuses to see this child because she is heartbroken about what happened to the other children. She loved them so much and they were lost to us. She provides presents and cards for the little girl and I give her photos but she won't see her for fear that they will lose her too. Aprilshowers, you too have had some very hard times. I was struck by some similarities in our stories. How interesting that the birth parents of your adopted children met in a homeless hostel and went on to have three children in quick succession. I also agree with you that some of us have had a heavy toll over the years on our health from severe prolonged stress and lack of support from agencies and often other issues like social isolation and financial problems. I feel very sad for my AS. There is no doubting the genuine love he has for his children and he has been almost the sole parent. The social workers have agreed that he is by far the better parent and that it is possible to work with him whereas it is impossible to work with my DIL. However he has always been loyal and faithful towards her. She is the dominant partner in the relationship, a bit older than him, and surrounded by her awful family. I don't know how things will work out. There is some hope but there is also the fear that things will deteriorate and they may not be able to continue to parent her. Lily x
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Post by lemonade on Feb 1, 2015 21:31:21 GMT
lilyofthevalley said: I could relate to some of your experiences. In particular, the providing of new clothes and never seeing them again. This has often happened to me over the years. I have spent a lot of money providing clothing, often chosen by them, and have never seen them again. I have often wondered what happens to them. It makes me reluctant now to provide more clothing as I feel my money is wasted. Can relate to this too I know what happens to them ... they get sold! Same with toys, they would be there one week the next week gone, sometimes just taken back to the shop for a refund. Got to the point where AD got tired of selling/returning and just asked everyone to give money for GD birthday presents , which of course I refused to do. So if I gave anything that I didn't want to go walkies, like for example I bought GD a trampoline, I had to say this is just on loan I want it back!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 22:58:11 GMT
so sad but at the same time comforting to know that we are not alone. adoption is for life from day one and now the girls are for life - open ended unconditional love - at a cost to us but we wouldn't have it any other way but we expect the adults in our life to accept the consequences of their choices - good or bad whatever their 'issues'.we all have to live in the real world and therapeutic parenting isn't practiced by wider society.
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Post by lilyofthevalley on Feb 4, 2015 8:54:15 GMT
That's interesting, Lemonade, about selling the clothes. I have considered that possibility. I have also wondered if she hands them over to members of her extended family. Alternatively they may be in drawers or cupboards to be shown to social workers but not actually used. Like the toys and books that are on display.
Lily x
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Post by lemonade on Feb 5, 2015 18:20:34 GMT
That's interesting, Lemonade, about selling the clothes. I have considered that possibility. I have also wondered if she hands them over to members of her extended family. Alternatively they may be in drawers or cupboards to be shown to social workers but not actually used. Like the toys and books that are on display. Lily x Hopefully if clothes went to extended family they were being used, but not so good if stuck in drawer for show only :/ Sadly I know with AD she has a great love of money and can never get enough. With birth of 1st child (LMB) she got a government payment of £500 for 1st child, which was gone in a day and nothing to show for it. LMB is now cared for by hubby Bubbles so with the birth of 2nd child, he was classed as 1st child as only one living with her and she got another £500 :/
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Post by lilyofthevalley on Feb 5, 2015 19:58:07 GMT
Hello Lemonade
I so know what you mean about the misspending of money and warped values! When my AS and DIL got a substantial grant for their first child they spent it on expensive matching gold rings for themselves with 'MUM' and 'DAD' proudly displayed on their respective rings. There was no money left over to buy things for the baby. :/
Lily x
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