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Post by pingu on Oct 30, 2014 15:24:06 GMT
Keep following your gut instincts Mudlark. I had to do this recently, taking the plunge to change ds2 school when I was aware a lot of folks just thought I wanted a posh school for ds2 because he is clever, but I felt it was best school around for keeping him on an even keel mentally and emotionally. if you saw my post in Good News recently, you will remember that I was proved right. ( so far !!,) You know your kids best, just keep that in mind and use what someone here recently called your mum instinct. Hope it works out ok for Lapwing. Pingu
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enid
Bronze Member
Single Adopter
Posts: 75
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Post by enid on Oct 30, 2014 18:38:20 GMT
We have a steiner school us which I would have loved for one of mine but its run by company and is madly expensive.
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Post by mudlark on Oct 30, 2014 22:04:31 GMT
The LA finally called me this evening. They need to put my proposal to the head of adoption and the post adoption support team, speak to the school and out social worker before they can come to a decision about whether I can go ahead and take lapwing out of school. What were their main concerns? Would Lapwing be isolated and not have enough socialisation with other children. That in my view was a silly question. Lapwing can only cope with one relationship at a time, so socialisation is an aim not a current need...
I did though realise from the chat that clearly the post adoption support team were concerned that if I home schooled Lapwing I might need extra post adoption support and so of course it come down to budgets.
Anyway I should 'hear' by the end of next week.. what ever that means.
In the meantime at the end of a very quick half term Lapwing has slowly and painfully unfurled abit.. eyes clear and bright, her infrequent smile a little more genuine .
Pingu , how I wish I had stuck to my instincts a year ago...but being a novice adopter I felt too overwhelmed by the many social workers involved. But now I am digging my heels in on this issue!
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Post by wibbley on Oct 30, 2014 23:40:32 GMT
I hope they see some sense Mudlark. Sadly, most SWs are very fearful of HE. It is something that is often cited in child abuse & neglect cases, but this is incorrect and media hype.
There is a big difference between someone covering up abuse and/or not bothering to get their child to school each day to someone who formally de-registers and decides that HE is the best option for their family.
The 'lack of socialising' is something that pretty well everyone trots out. It's complete nonsense. HE kids actually spend a lot more time socialising than they would at school as they spend so much 'free' time together, all day in many cases for us. At school, sitting at a desk does not count as true 'socialising', so they get a 15-20 minute break in the morning and then the same again at lunch? If your child finds socialising hard this sort of unstructured, unsupported play is actually painfully difficult. I have 2 AC's, one who is very social and one who is decidedly not (ASD). BUT my DS does enjoy meeting a small group of well known friends and loves to spend his days climbing trees etc with them. This has taken time to achieve though. They have their fallouts, of course, but where HE helps him in particular is that we parents are in the vicinity and help each child understand the other and help soothe the way forward. It's very gentle, supported socialising for my DS and it's exactly what he needs.
When we started HE we pulled everything back and slowly slowly are building more and more back in. As his confidence grows, his anxiety over change and the unknown becomes more manageable. I am always there to suggest we go off early home/elsewhere when I can see things become too much for him. I witness events and we can talk about exactly what happened, why and how to do things differently next time. My DD has reached the stage where she wants time without me, I am decidedly not cool and now quite an embarrassment. This too is quite an achievement from the scared little girls I de-registered.
Where we live there is far far more stuff going on than is humanly possible to do. You would have to clone yourself several times to get to all the events going on. We find we have to diary in 'home time' in order to ensure that we DO get down time and time for the academic side too. I have found that HE is in fact, amazingly social - for me and the children.
In terms of needing more post adoption support, I am not so sure this rings very true. If your child is a happier and more content child then life at home will be easier too. That's not to say life will be perfect and that your child will not need some additional support - but I must say, the support required at school for a child not coping can be HUGE. My son is still a highly complex little boy, but he is a happy one who we help bit by bit manage his terrible anxieties, a big big one being separation anxiety. This alone can never be worked through if the system of 'cure' is to separate, separate, separate. I am a big believer in dependence before independence. Right now, my DS is just not ready for much in the way of independence and that is that. We work with it, with the belief that this is a marathon not a sprint and if it takes until he is 12yrs old to work through some developmental stages he should've passed through at 2yrs old, then so be it.
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Post by larsti on Oct 31, 2014 0:01:40 GMT
Wonderful post wibbley :-)
Larsti x
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Post by poohbear on Oct 31, 2014 0:07:08 GMT
Oh Mudlark, I hope you get a good outcome. Xx
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Post by mudlark on Oct 31, 2014 22:23:47 GMT
wibbley thank you for that brilliant post...you have managed to say so much that resonates with me. you are spot on about adoption support issues. I have a meeting with the school on tuesday who are oblivious to all the LA emails! will be intriguing to hear their view.
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Post by mudlark on Nov 5, 2014 17:24:48 GMT
update...meeting with school this afternoon. First time we have met since email before half term. To cut it short, we are still awaiting the say so from the LA but we had the meeting anyway. School trying to persuade us to drop her days to three or two a week.....their concern was also about how would Peewit cope with Lapwing being taken out of school. I had not thought about dropping her days to two....but even so she'd still be facing the whole situation every week, with the anxiety still there about gong to school
The frustrating bit was when the very nice SENCO asked me to go through why we wanted to take her out of school, and I trotted out all the usual stuff about traumatised child, attachment disorder, needing to spend time with me and he was looking at me as though he thought I was exaggerating, he looked at me kindly but as if he heard it all before and I was just an anxious mum. He then said but school could be the little piece of normality in her life...we can supply the normal he said....! hmmmmmmmm
Anyway left it saying I would think about it and await the LA's dicat.
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Post by wibbley on Nov 5, 2014 20:36:52 GMT
Though if your LO 'feels' different school will be reinforcing that daily.
My DS felt different from a very young age. In HE he is one of many ASD kids. Even those that aren't asd are accepting of difference.
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Post by mudlark on Nov 5, 2014 22:17:11 GMT
It's seems such a hard decision when I am sure it isn't. There are too many cooks spoiling this broth...we've got sensory OT involved now.it feels like a circus tent...when all I want is to be at home baking cakes, reading stories, painting pictures, and singing some lullabies with my little lapwing...
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Post by leo on Nov 5, 2014 22:18:51 GMT
Was wondering how things were for you Mudlark. Up until a few weeks ago I was keen on the idea of part time schooling (and mine have never yet managed a full week anyway) but am actually now thinking the same as you! Why is it that people don't seem to understand there really is nothing 'normal' about being terrified when at school?
Maybe you go part time until the adoption order goes through though if that is now under way?
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Post by mudlark on Nov 5, 2014 22:40:04 GMT
Well Leo...the adoption order is on hold...because the LA have taken so long to send some important info. I now have that info but its full of mistakes, so am now having to take them to task over that.
It's all such hard work....but yes...I think I will look at giving lapwing less days...poor little mite is now covered in exczma when we had cleared it up and anxious coughing all night....
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Post by leo on Nov 5, 2014 22:54:14 GMT
I was planning to use this half term to make a final choice and investigate home education to try and get things 'right' and feel it was a planned move - but I'm not sure we'll make it that far.
The eczema, coughing etc sounds very familiar.
Sorry to hear the adoption order is on hold; have been there too!
Stay strong, it will happen and both Lapwing and Peewit will benefit from it (part of your argument when people question about Peewit could be that he will see how much you love them and how you are responding to his sister's needs and how that will then give him a greater sense of trust and security in you and your ability to cater for his needs too).
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Post by wibbley on Nov 6, 2014 0:01:05 GMT
Some kids don't want to be HE, or they give it a go & miss school.
Either way, I know many families that HE just 1 child whilst others are at school.
For us, DD asked to be HE when she knew we weren't sending DS to school. It was her decision & remains hers as to whether she stays home or chooses to go back,
It's been over 2yrs now & she says no way to school, but does miss some elements of it. Not much though ha
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Post by corkwing on Nov 6, 2014 7:50:23 GMT
Erm... and in the x,000 years of human history, for how long has school been "normal" ??
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Post by mudlark on Nov 7, 2014 22:42:37 GMT
well we have some options. reduce lapwings days at school from 4 per week to 3 or 2 days per week. If we keep her in even just one day a week we keep her place at school. the advantages of flexible schooling as opposed to complete withdrawal from school are that 1. she keeps her place open at the school. 2. I get a day with peewit without drawing upon family. 3. I get time out without children 4. Lapwing gets to be 'part of school'
Its really hard to know what to do..
Where we live, school and church and community around us are all very linked and strong..not a community I was a part of before but I can see for children could be important...having a sence of place belonging etc.
I don't want to go on and on about this and bore everyone. but on the other hand it seems we are part of a wider debate...which is...Is school good for our little ones, if it isn't then what are the other options. There seem to be a few of us wrangling over this question at the moment.
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Post by leo on Nov 7, 2014 23:09:51 GMT
Think I have made my decision today. Home education. It's sad because I think Hurricane could actually cope with school - and did last year when the conditions were 'right'. The stress he puts himself through to appear to be the same as the others, the pressure to not stand out or be different is huge however and is so detrimental to his mental health and his behaviour. If school helped him to manage this, he would fare so much better - but they don't because, according to his teacher, he is a 'normal boy who is no different to the rest of the children in the class'. Funny then how he has a Statement for 32 hours a week and that social workers describe him as the most complex child they have come across in all their years of adoption!
Tsunami I think is going to leave without a backwards glance as he is only in the very early stages of beginning to make a relationship with me. He is not ready for a relationship with anyone else and he is not going to be able to feel a sense of belonging and community with anything until he has a sense of belonging with me. His views in the world are so damaged that he's not able to access what is out there ready to support or guide him, he can't even yet accept this fully from me!
I think I'm viewing home education (for however long we do it) as a pause button for the rest of life/society - to give us time to put in those vital foundations that may then enable them to access what is on offer in a wider environment.
I have to admit though that I am still half hovering over whether to have Tsunami off completely and Hurricane off maybe 2 or 3 days a week. What's stopping me is that I think Hurricane with his need to be the 'same' will put even greater pressure on himself as he will feel he needs to catch up on the school days he has missed and will find it even harder academically to keep up.
Mudlark, maybe you trial part time for Lapwing until the adoption order goes through and it may give you time to make a final decision?
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Post by poohbear on Nov 8, 2014 7:39:10 GMT
I like the idea of part time school, part time home ed I think. Maybe Lapwing will be able to cope with 2 days away from you without auch an impact as full time?
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Post by mudlark on Nov 9, 2014 19:42:44 GMT
Leo, so much of what you write about Tsunami and Hurricane sounds just like Lapwing. you wrote 'He is not ready for a relationship with anyone else and he is not going to be able to feel a sense of belonging and community with anything until he has a sense of belonging with me. His views in the world are so damaged that he's not able to access what is out there ready to support or guide him, he can't even yet accept this fully from me!'
Lapwing is the same except she will try to accept it/seek it out from anybody other than me, so she haphazardly takes on the views and ideas of her 'friends' her teachers, the man who delivers the Tesco order, and tries to avoid accepting support from me! And yes until she is able to accept and believe in her relationship with me, her mummy, she will just be confused and scr**ed up...as none of those other people are real to her, but she finds it easier to have unreal relationships than real ones. Hence I suppose her disorganised, avoidant attachment style.
This week I am going to call school on Thursday and say she is not well enough to come to school and so this will give her 2 days at home 3 days at school this week, this while I await the LA's decision.
Peewit....well not anything at the moment other than continue with his 4 day a week at school he has Mondays with me while Lapwing is at school.
Leo I like you idea of a 'pause button' we need it don't we? Breathing space, school doesn't give us that, it's just a treadmill. Have you finalised you decision with school?
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Post by leo on Nov 9, 2014 22:47:30 GMT
Mudlark, there is hope. Tsunami was just as you describe Lapwing for a very long time; he is slowly, oh so very slowly, beginning to change.
I have made up my mind - but not told children or school yet as trying to meet up with some home ed people. Also need to think about how to manage the 'ending' as when we left the last school it was a dire ending and left us all traumatised for a long time. Will spend the next week trying to organise and plan ready for having them home full time.
Stay strong.
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Post by peartree on Nov 9, 2014 23:03:42 GMT
I'm in awe of you. I don't think could have done home ed. I'm a teacher by profession and frankly school gave me a break from them and them a break from home and one another. I love the idea of creative learning at home Doing things together but I think the reality of doing this with kids with iffy attachments and crumbly identity is risky. There are some real weirdos doing home ed who use it to endoctrinate their children and that's off putting to the sws I would think. For our children the learning to cope with other children The world and others in it- I think that's important too actually. For my 2, they threw their world of pain at us and were very on the surface at school. Things would go under the radar with teachers and then roughly once a term they'd have a big disaster and teacher would realise they should have paid more attention. They did cope with the routine of school and their survival technique of zoning out and towing the line was much easier to achieve at school than at home where relationship was required of them (their toughest challenge) You do need to think as well about how different they already are. I don't know if home ed will ease that at all. i think for normal range kids home ed can be hugely helpful and I do think that for some who just cannot do school I can see it could help. But I'd like to make one more further comment about how much women (in the main) are expecting of themselves just to teach and be mother and supporter and partner all at once. It's a massive massive task and one that must be well supported to give these women some time to be themselves.
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Post by wibbley on Nov 10, 2014 7:45:30 GMT
Ahh, there are weirdos everywhere.
I've met some odd ball parents through HE & school in equal measure. I've seen a couple of wild children in HE, but my eldest was at school with a few very messed up kids. The difference being he had to manage them, without support, in the playground.
I HE 1 complex child & another who buries everything deeply away. It's tiring,can be full on & no there's not much 'me time'. It's also incredibly rewarding. However,for me personally nothing compares to the emotional exhaustion of the constant worry when your child is at school. Having to deal with teachers & professionals who havent got a clue, the calls from from school & the "can I have a word.." at pick up. Having to manage other parents & their kids nasty comments. Then seeing the state your kids are in when you pick them up, then the strung out behaviour.
HE isn't for everyone,some kids don't line it either. But it's got to be worth a try if school isn't working.
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Post by wibbley on Nov 10, 2014 9:39:58 GMT
No, sadly the statement doesn't end & parents 'may' still have to go for statement reviews. At worst you may be asked how you are providing some of the things on the statement - I.e speech therapy. However, if you HE & by doing so provide say 121 help then you are fulfilling the statement anyway. All of us work on the areas our child needs naturally - so for us we work on a lot of OT as this is a big area of need for our son - as is helping him socialise.
Parents can choose HE by law, regardless of statementing or being at a special school. You don't have to show work, prove how much you are doing etc to anyone by law. Whereas to someone unfamiliar with HE that sounds weird, when considering the number of Sen kids there are being HE & because everyone does it differently It does make sense. For some children learning basic life skills is the aim, not following the national curriculum. As there are many kids in SEN schools who aren't too.
Some LEAs can attempt to make HE difficult at first with various ill informed facts, but this is usually because they don't know the law themselves (& believe me many don't).
The one part of the HE law that I Uncomfortable with is that no child needs to be registered to HE. I Uncomfortable with children being 'lost' in a system & have registered both of mine & had a visit from our local HE officer to discuss HE. Again, they are not allowed to ask you about your methods of working, but they did as ask about social development (whilst accepting this is different for each child - I.e ASD) & physical activities. Their main focus was on emotional and physical health of the child rather than academic achievement as such.
The HE community is divided about the subject of lea involvement as many oppose registration as they feel it is akin to saying HE kids are at risk. There is much bad press when big abuse cases come to light and a child who is not attending school (so CME - child missing education) is labelled as HE. This obviously causes upset as there is a big difference between a HE family and someone who doesn't bother to send their child to school as part of the general pattern of abuse (cme).
I know many people who are HE their kids with statements, it makes little difference, but you don't get extra support. Rightly or wrongly, HE is seen as your choice so all extra school centered support stops.
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Post by peartree on Nov 10, 2014 10:20:43 GMT
Re the HE support I think you might be incorrect there You can get the advice of ed psychologists as they are area based I think?
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Post by leo on Nov 10, 2014 10:30:51 GMT
Sadly, no. Once you take them out of school then you are on your own. No access to specialist teachers, EP, funding for their Statemented hours or PP+. Seems rather unfair!
Apparently their Statements are effectively 'on hold' and if they re-start school then they have to be re-assessed to determine what level of need they still have and what support/funding they are entitled to.
That's all according to my LA SENCAN team as of last week. Of course, it could be different in other areas as there doesn't seem to be any uniformity!
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Post by wibbley on Nov 10, 2014 18:22:56 GMT
Absolutely no support here - we pay for our own gcses. Though some LEAs do offer exam support I think. Where I live there are the most HE families by far than anywhere else in the country & it's rising fast. Over 2500 families in this area alone (so not the whole county) by the HE officers guesstimate, though he said probably far more as many are not registered so it's hard to get an exact figure. So in an area where the number of HE families is more than double anywhere else, there is still no support, even for SEN kids.
Once you are out of the system you are out. However, we knew that before we started. I spent 6mths researching & meeting people before we made the decision to HE.
However, given the very shoddy support given to my DS & DD when 'in the system' I dont feel i am missing out on anything. What am I missing? Having to attend caf/taf meetings to try to argue for support & being patted on the head like a neurotic fuss-pot? Having to re-explain WHY my child does xyz again and again?
I'm not missing out on much.
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Post by wibbley on Nov 10, 2014 18:52:17 GMT
There also seems to be an issue with some GPs & Paediatricians not referring HE children for particular assessments. Things that are school nurse led, like dyslexia. My friend has been denied a dyslexia assessment because Her gp would not refer her because he said it needed to come from the school. However, he is undergoing a ASD assessment without issue. However, every Home edder seems to have a different experience, I think it depends on the prof you deal with. Many I've dealt with have been quite pro HE.
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Post by peartree on Nov 10, 2014 20:53:47 GMT
When blossom was at the little private school the ep assessed her That was outside the lea as she didn't have a state funded place. I was told they cover by area and not by school. I wonder if there are regional differences on this?
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Post by mudlark on Nov 11, 2014 20:32:42 GMT
Despite a promise of the end of last week the Local authority have not got back to us regarding if we can home school Lawping. And do you know, rather strangely this week, and I know its only Tuesday, she has been almost a joy to collect from school, smiling at me, hugging me, talking to me, wanting a kiss....it's never happened before. Anyway I am not holding my breath as can almost guarantee by Friday we will have usual behaviour back again. But it is a small moment of pleasure for me.
In the meantime, I am whatever the LA say or don't say going to take her down to three days next week. I have a parents afternoon this week, my first, and am dreading having to hear how well she is doing, how normal she is, what a shame I am thinking of taking her out of school etc. I feel as though the wind has been rather taken out of my sails at the moment. But we shall see.
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Post by mudlark on Nov 12, 2014 19:38:08 GMT
Local Authority have said they will not support/allow me to take Lapwing out of school for more than two days per week. Give no reason at all. We will have to await the adoption order then.
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