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Post by corkwing on Sept 15, 2014 7:13:11 GMT
I wonder if teachers recognise how hard it is?
Sprat's now in year 7 so he comes home with history homework. "Find out about Roundheads and Cavaliers".
In my day you had a text book and they'd tell you to read pages 12-15 and there would be the age-appropriate information. But now, he's left floundering on the Internet with hundreds of thousands of sites with everything from research papers to civil war re-enactment societies. He tries a few, is baffled and melts down.
I tried to find some age-appropriate information. After about 30 minutes searching I had found nothing. Even with the help of a teacher, who suggested a form of words to enter into the search engine, I still could not come up with something that I thought he could read and understand.
With meltdowns, trying to calm Sprat, attempts to help him and trying things out ourselves, we've probably spent about 5 hours between us. The result? Half a page copied from a website where the text contains long words and complicated concepts that I'm sure mean nothing at all to Sprat. I find it hard to accept that there's been any educational value to it.
And then we moved on to English. "Write a myth". I don't know what they've done in class. I don't know how many myths they'd read and discussed. I don't know how clearly the teacher has explained what he or she means by a myth. But Sprat claims that he doesn't know what a myth is and is too stressed to listen to our explanations. Another three or four corporate hours full of stress and distress. Sprat never cries. Yet we could hear him in the dining room sobbing away, heartbreakingly.
And the science homework. "Make a safety poster". Yep, dead simple for a child who doesn't care. But Sprat has to get it right, so has to know exactly what a safety poster should be and, because he doesn't, descends into his world of stress and chaos. He can't get the lettering right when he's drawing it so the first effort goes into the bin. The picture's not good enough, so another one is screwed angrily into a ball. And so it goes on. Until Kermit spends an hour or so with him producing something that's really her work, not his. OK, so he stuck on the letters that she'd cut out, but that was about it.
I know that the teacher doesn't really care how artistic, creative and beautiful the finished article is, but Sprat cannot accept that. He cannot present a scruffy bit of paper with a scrawled picture and wobbly lettering spelling out a cautionary message. And so we are doomed to hours of stress...
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Post by sooz on Sept 15, 2014 9:05:05 GMT
Oh no, you have all my sympathies.
I confessed to the senco 'I can't do this'. Reading, yes....but not much else. Daily diary in the summer hols had me sweating, his other homework was to collect 5 postcards for geography, doable too. Yesterday he informs me that 'we are part of er up' lol.
Oh and mathletics we can do too.
I'm not doing anything else! Not because I'm lazy or don't care, and I do feel bad not pushing it, but life is stressful enough!
Can you buy a set of encyclopaedias? Would he find that easier to research?
(I guess I'm lucky snooz is really not very bothered about appearance or content of his homework)
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Post by donatella on Sept 15, 2014 9:34:26 GMT
Oh we just love homework here! Not. DDs current school book is all about myths and legends. The one she read last night was an Indian tale about Indra and Vritra. DD is veeeery literal. She now thinks that rain happens when you slay a dragon! I'd lost the will to live by that point let alone trying to explain what a myth was!! If it helps corkwing, this is a site I use a lot for ks2 homework. Easy to read and manoevre around! www.primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk
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Post by corkwing on Sept 15, 2014 9:47:54 GMT
Thanks, Donatella. That was one of the sites I found in my searching, but unfortunately it's only Primary so didn't have roundheads and cavaliers.
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Post by donatella on Sept 15, 2014 10:10:27 GMT
Yep. Y7. Silly me!
We have an added complication with ks3 in that DS attends a welsh language school so resources are extremely limited! At the weekend we've had Shakespeare, write about a current war and, one that he did quickly, was to play, analyse and write about a game, ie xbox, ps4 war game! That was no problem!!
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Post by corkwing on Sept 15, 2014 10:18:01 GMT
Shakespeare in Welsh... Hmmm. I fod, neu beidio â bod yn (To be or not to be). I think the scansion has lost a little in translation.
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Post by fruitcake on Sept 15, 2014 16:56:43 GMT
The Galore Park publishing company textbooks are beautifully written and illustrated. They cover all the main subjects of the National Curriculum at key stages 2 and 3. Reading a few pages of one of these out loud and discussing it together would take a fraction of the time that "internet research" would take and be much more interesting and pleasant. You can see samples on the website.
"Myth" is the Greek word for "story". Sprat could be encouraged to make one up. How about "The Handsome Prince and the Wicked Stepfather"?
You can buy calligraphy felt tip pens from big stationers. They are so easy to use and he will effortlessly be able to do nice lettering - then just stick pictures on. It will look nice.
You are such good parents to be trying to help Sprat like this.
Setting internet research for homework with no guidance as to likely websites or questions to consider is lazy. I well remember my son getting "Find out about David Hockney on the internet" for his homework. He beavered away for about two hours. I was so encouraged. Are we turning a corner, I wondered? Eventually suspicion grew and I intervened, much to his fury. He had printed off one short article about David Hockney (without actually reading it) but moved up quite a few levels in his current favourite computer game.
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Post by larsti on Sept 16, 2014 10:17:02 GMT
Children's non fiction and reference books are definitely more accessible. With a bit of notice for homework a trip to library might reap dividends especially if Sprat does the home work at the library. And asking the librarian for help finding the info is the way to go.
Alternatively you can access some resources from home, eg locally we have access to reference books through the library website. Just type in library card number and get 'Brittanica Library Junior'
Sprat could also have his own homework favourites folders with good websites.
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Post by larsti on Sept 16, 2014 10:19:13 GMT
doesn't help with perfectionism though or open ended questions like 'find out about....'
With something like a poster would he be allowed to do it on computer. Saves things being ripped up because a mistake has been made (I remember it so well!!)
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Post by larsti on Sept 16, 2014 10:20:46 GMT
Also is there some sort of guidance about how long homework is supposed to take? Many an evening/weekend ruined by homework here in the past :-(
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Post by serrakunda on Sept 16, 2014 10:27:20 GMT
Opposite problem here, homework not nearly challenging enough and they are still sending him home with signing symbols. There are 14 children and three staff in his class surely they should be able to individualise it for the more able kids,
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Post by runmum on Sept 16, 2014 11:50:14 GMT
Sympathy sympathy sympathy. Great text book idea from fruitcake. Has Sprat had an SpLD or Ed Psych assessment?? Does he have an IEP? I know there is no obligation under the new system to do IEPs but our school are carrying on with that in the absence of anything else. I know attitude to homework has been a key driver in our search for a secondary school for Jealous Dog (now year 6.) We are only considering schools where JD would be allowed to focus homework on key subjects only in year 7 and where they understand that in light of his dyslexia homework needs to be focused and supportive. I would meet with the Head of Year and the Head of Learning Support and see if you can make a joint plan so homework can be:
Focused around a) areas where he struggles and needs to catch up b) differentiated so that it reflects what he is capable of now and genuinely builds on what he (not the average student) will have learnt securely in class c) allows him to explore further things that he loves
Also get an agreement that research materials should be more focused for Sprat i.e. suggested websites/books from the library.
Good luck, you do an amazing job and really should be properly supported not "put upon"
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Post by cowgirl on Sept 16, 2014 13:34:19 GMT
Is it the teachers or those in their ivory towers that set the curriculum
In year 5 we had "justice ... Discuss justice and investigate two religions views on justice" these kids we coming up to 10 year old & the majority believe in santa. We found guidance notes on BBC revision for GcSE
Eldest in year 6 and they have enrichments (is this country or county wide ?) are to take between 1-2 hours each week, in addition to math & English.
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Post by leo on Sept 16, 2014 19:21:52 GMT
Tonight we have a worksheet on times tables. Hurricane can't yet add 5+4 without a lot of thought, use of fingers and the odd wild guess thrown in. Oh yes he's learnt that 9 x 10 = 90 but when I asked him what it actually meant he had no idea that it represented 9 groups of ten objects being counted up all together!
Having had an understanding teacher last year who didn't even send homework home but used some of his 1:1 time to complete it in school, it came as a shock today to have the teacher march out to me on the playground to tell me 'Hurricane wants to do his homework, he's told his LSA. He's perfectly capable of doing it so I expect it handed in next Monday'. I replied that we would do our best but that given we rarely actually managed to read at home (something he loves) because of behaviour after school, it may not be possible and asked if the practice from last year could continue. Her response: 'No it's not fair to do it at school (fair to who exactly?) and if it's not done then he'll miss Golden Time'. Hmmm.
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Post by fruitcake on Sept 16, 2014 19:56:12 GMT
My friend and I had an enjoyable hour yesterday sitting in the sports pavilion doing her son's R.E. homework, discussing an interesting topic to do with prejudice, discrimination and advertising. We wrote him a nice set of notes. Meanwhile he and my son thoroughly enjoyed their sports session together. Now that's what I call a win-win homework policy! (Only trouble is his report last term mentioned some excellent homework and a hope that his classwork might catch up ... )
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Post by corkwing on Sept 17, 2014 7:36:41 GMT
I emailed his teacher to ask whether they'd been given detailed instructions on how to find stuff on the Internet. Got a terse reply to say that yes, the school did take Internet security seriously and that they had worked on using the net for education. And that they'd reviewed what had been set for the history homework and it seemed fine, and that Sprat had produced good work.
I've replied with details of how long it took us and the stress that it caused. I've asked again for details of whether they've been guided towards specific sites or forms of words. And I set the tutor a challenge to try to find age-appropriate information within a couple of minutes.
Be interesting to see the response...
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Post by cowgirl on Sept 17, 2014 8:40:48 GMT
Fruitcake I did the homework on poverty. Learnt loads about other religions. I spent at least 2+ hours on it trying to get it sound as if a 9 yo had written it. This week ? Draw around your hand, decorate it and put your family & hobbies & important things etc on each finger. Chalk & cheese
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Post by mooster on Sept 17, 2014 9:02:49 GMT
AS has been at a small independent school which has traditionally given very little homework apart from read read read. For this I have been very thankful as I fully remember the battles even at year 4 in the state system – basically my advice is if it becomes a battle don’t do it – as an adoptive parent you have bigger issues to deal with. Education can wait, growing up and feeling safe and secure can’t wait…..
AS now at business end of schooling, GCSE’s this year and he wants to do well but he does really struggle – I have just spent the last 30 minutes trawling the internet for past questions on his science topic and we will sit down and do them together tonight – trying to do this sort of thing at age 11 would have been a no no.
Corkwing I totally get your frustrations with searching the internet on a particular topic – lazy lazy teaching in my opinion. Start them off by giving three questions on the topic to find answers to and then over time get them to come up with the questions – the internet is too big for an 11 year old to use sensibly.
I remember AD cutting and pasting reams of stuff saying she had written it – well what is a diaper then? Once she got a really got grade for a poem, I being suspicious put the first line into google – guess what?!!
Battle on! Mooster x
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Post by corkwing on Sept 17, 2014 9:16:38 GMT
I love the advice, Mooster. Unfortunately "don't do it" isn't that simple.
The teachers have given him the homework. He feels that he HAS to do it. Weird, I know, as he doesn't feel the same about us telling him to load the dishwasher or put his shoes away.
His response to us refusing to let him do it is "I'll look silly. Everyone will laugh at me". Basically he doesn't want to be noticed at school and the threat of anything like that arouses huge washes of toxic shame.
The same happens if we suggest that he hands in something that is incomplete or otherwise not good enough.
We could ask the teachers to tell Sprat that he doesn't have to do the homework, but he'd then go into meltdown because he'd get noticed. I'd probably have felt a bit the same. "The homework this week, for everyone except Corkwing, is to..."
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Post by pingu on Sept 17, 2014 9:20:54 GMT
What are signing symbols Serrakunda? And what are " enrichments" cowgirrl ? If we have those here, they either dont mention those names or call them something else? we too used to have the " not challenging enoigh" problem, though its better now with the more rigorous routine at his new school, but i hate vague questions as i cant help with what is wanted plus the kids get frustrated when they cant find info fast enoigh. And i really hate this, " research the topic on the internet" stuff, that basically means " google it" as far as the kids are concerned. Also, the kids seem to be picking up the idea that the internet is the only fount of knowledge and that libraries are irrelevant , and they are not having this corrected by the teachers( i had an interesting discussion with one of mt scouts about this last week. - his idea of using a different source was to use Bing instead of Google) when i worked at the university the students were taught about specifically scholarly sites and things like google scholar which produces references to accetable rkesearch that is deemed accepable, but for schoolchildren these are sometimes too advanced and they are far better ( info more reliable) using books, plus it stops them just cutting and pasting, which is a total no no at university and can get them into serious trouble there. Trouble is kids say the teacher has often spefically told them to use the internet, it took is a while to explain to our boys that as lomg as you quote yoir research source, a book is usually acceptable and indeed the info there is likely to be more original than what your classmates produce. Corkwing , i recognise the perfectionism and impatience combination, ny ds2 is like that. If he cant do the work he goes into meltdown and you cant continue the homework till he has calmed down. Maths is our main issue, used to love it, but he missed a lot last year, thanks to his weekly therapy being scheduled at maths time ) and it tooks two terms before the teacher realised !!! ( can i borrow some of your alpha numeric characters Corkwing, i have run out) when he started saying he was rubbish at maths because he had missed so much.now he gets so stressed that 10 minutes worth of maths can take half an hour or more. He is catching up and getting better but itt is stressful still at times. One thing that really helped me with numbers as a child was those coloured wooden blocks of number lenghts that the kids can play with. it helped me get a sense of tens and units. My son was also helped by doing a number chart , 1 to 100 in rows of ten. If they do it themselves they can see where the groupings are. Kumon class and practise also gave my older son some confidence at maths as they start them well beck, at stuff they know, and progress steadily at the childs pace, but 10 mins each day, no more. He was catching up well with that till his cleverclogs brother arrived and he felt embarrassed to go.
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Post by mooster on Sept 17, 2014 10:34:02 GMT
More willing to do things for teachers than at home rings many bells, certainly with AD.
It sounds as though if Sprat is given the choice whether he does his homework he wants to do the right thing, even if it is about conforming. So he can make good decisions – celebrate!
The issue then becomes should Sprat be making this choice at age 11? The answer is probably no and I can see you trying really hard to make it work for him. Whether he manages his homework on any particular day without a meltdown may well just depend on his mood, his interest in the subject, whether he likes the teacher and if he had jam for tea!
Trying to meet your yoyo child at the exact age/emotion they are presenting to you when wanting to produce a wonderful piece of work on the roundheads and cavaliers is near impossible and battles will follow! For these children I think more directed homework is appropriate, yes we want them to understand how to find out information but we also want to make sure that the act of finding out the information is not overwhelming. Bring back text books. (waffling now!)
I guess you just end up running behind them trying to cope with the mayhem left behind hoping that next time it will be easier!
In our household we have made our 17 AD totally responsible for her education and she must live by her decisions – we are supporting those decisions and watching with interest! Academically she should be straight A’s but we have accepted that given her early trauma she will underachieve in this area. She will achieve in other ways though and can always return to academia at a later date if she chooses; currently she has switched in the middle of A levels to a more practical BTec, she thinks it will be less work!
It sounds like you have got much on your plate at the moment so thinking about you.
Mooster x
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Post by damson on Sept 21, 2014 19:53:42 GMT
My children's secondary school has a homework club after school once or twice a week. Just occasionally, my DD used it. Now I discover that there is another after school session for 'scholars' - the youngsters with Pupil Premium, or PP+. DS actually thinks his 1:1 after school is worth having, as he's in GCSE year.
However, for most of their lives with us, they have been too tired to use an after school club for homework. Like the rest of you, we had to rely on whatever half baked instructions had been written in the homework planner. In vain, we tried to get teachers to explain to DD exactly what the homework involved. Eventually, she learned to ask for herself. And learned to go and improve on course work that could be shone up. It was a very long, painful path. DS rings his mates up, and a lowest common denominator homework often emerged.
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Post by corkwing on Sept 22, 2014 6:51:20 GMT
My communication got passed up to the head who, unfortunately, used to be the history teacher.
"I found a site in a couple of minutes". Turned out to be number 9 in the list when I tried my Google search. It was one that I'd found, but it had very little information. I probably read it in less than a minute, and so I'd discounted it. Still no real guidance as to how I or Sprat are supposed to identify a site with the appropriate sort of information.
Head did say that most kids in primary were quite good at using the Internet for educational research.
I did reply suggesting that most kids would start at the first entry on the list. It could take them a long time to get down to site number 9. I also expressed my surprise that he thought that most kids of that age would be quite good at it. None of my other 6 have been at that age. Haven't had a response, unfortunately.
Homework since then has been much more clearly defined so no more meltdowns.
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Post by lilyofthevalley on Sept 22, 2014 15:51:57 GMT
I recently discovered this through my Open University studies. Google has an 'Advanced Search' option that narrows things down. Just type in 'Advanced Search' then click on it. You then type in what you are looking for such as 'roundheads and cavaliers'. I found a site specifically for kids. You can also select images and videos from the top ribbon. Hope that helps.
Lily x
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Post by sooz on Oct 16, 2014 16:00:20 GMT
Think I may give up.
Snooz got a project about 4 weeks ago to be handed in next week. We've been working on it, it's unbelievably complicated and I've been stressing over how to get it done using my limited technical skills (even had to google what a Venn diagram was). I've mentioned to the other mums that I was finding it hard and how were they getting on, they all said it was fine, no problems.
So I'm feeling particularly useless........until today when I discover snooz has been given the wrong homework!! One of the mums has kindly copied me with what her daughter was given, much more achievable! I shall be paying his teacher a visit in the morning!!
Goodness knows which year group should have had the homework he was given!!
Grrrrr
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Post by corkwing on Oct 17, 2014 6:44:32 GMT
Sooz, you've made Tokoloshe speechless. That's when you know it must be bad!
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Post by sooz on Oct 17, 2014 8:17:35 GMT
So....the kids were allowed to choose which sheet they wanted for their project.
Snooz chose the purple sheet as opposed to the red one!!
Good choice Snooz!!!
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Post by sockthing on Oct 17, 2014 8:39:10 GMT
Did he choose it because he preferred the colour? That's what kipper would do!
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Post by sooz on Oct 17, 2014 10:25:30 GMT
Yep, you can guarantee it.
I am sure he didn't read through it and pick 'create a PowerPoint presentation on global food shortages' 'devise a charity campaign to help raise money for starving people' 'write a letter to David Cameron to persuade him to donate money' '' write a diary entry as if you live in a country with food shortages' 'survey your family and friends on why they think there are food shortages and transfer the data into a bar chart or pictogram' 'look at the reasons for global food shortages, both physical and human, and create a Venn diagram,......'
No, he'd have just preferred purple!
Btw, if anyone has any ideas or pointers.......help!! We've done the letter and diary entry!
He's only 8!
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Post by milly on Oct 17, 2014 10:37:01 GMT
Surely he is not expected to do all the tasks? Sounds like you've done well. I hate those open ended things. DH spent a good 3 hours last weekend with dd1 (nearly 14) on her history project. I'd already done some with her and she'd done some independently. She hadn't a clue about the content so I'm sure it's more DH's work than hers! It was on a PowerPoint and she had sneakily deleted and changed some slides, as we discovered at the 11th hour!
Luckily dd2 is quite creative and likes planning projects. I couldn't cope with two the same!
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