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Post by serrakunda on Jun 26, 2014 15:16:07 GMT
I've been to view a broad spectrum secondary school today. Lovely school, ofsted outstanding. A lot of very very disabled children, including severe medical issues and physical disabilities. Head and deputy were super. Great on site facilities and funding for more improvements. Lots of opportunities, children have very good outcomes, lovely grounds, forest school, brilliant workshop were they can learn trade skills, carpentry, plumbing, car and bike maintenance, horticulture and small animal care courses. Good independent living skills programmes. Lovely separate little 6th form centre. Good links with mainstream secondaries. Simba would love it there from the start, lots of his friends from current school will go there.
Went to to a mainstream secondary last week. Lovely school, good ofsted. Nice grounds and facilities. They have the highest % of LACs of all schools in the city, very high number of ASD kids. Head of special needs was super. We had a chat around adoption issues, she seemed knowledgable and experienced, without wanting to push her own views on me. Observed a lesson, all the kids were working well, one very minor misdemeanour was dealt with in about two seconds without class being disrupted. Also there at lesson change over, all very orderly. Everyone was very polite, held doors open etc. So discipline and expected standards of behaviour high. When I arrived they were just bringing back a boy who clearly had done a runner. While I was waiting in reception several staff came to check that he had been found and was ok. Later saw him sitting in the garden with a teacher talking. All seemed very caring. School is small for secondary, about 600 children. The head knew every child we met and had something personal to say to them. If he went Simba would go into a nurture unit whilst they got the measure of him and he would go into the mainstream classes as they thought it was right for him, but he could stay in nurture groups for lessons. Had some good stories of outcomes for children who had come from special school. Head of the special school I saw today also spoke very highly of them, told me about one of their children who went there last year, they were concerned but it's been an amazing success. I think Simba could settle in time but we'd have problems to start with as none of class mates will go there.
i do have a couple more schools to visit but I think I may have made my decision
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Post by bop on Jun 26, 2014 15:22:27 GMT
I must say both sound like they would be a good option - am sure you will make the right decision for Simba.
Bop
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Post by donatella on Jun 26, 2014 16:16:45 GMT
Second one!
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Post by doubletrouble on Jun 26, 2014 19:26:19 GMT
I would not only look at the schools and what they provide Simba at the moment, but what you feel will be the outlook for him when he is grown up. Would he need supported living etc. or do you feel he is more likely to live an independent life with a job requiring some academic as well as vocational qualifications. Do you feel he would benefit socially from extending his group of friends? I would be inclined to prefer no.2 but I don't know Simba.
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Post by serrakunda on Jun 26, 2014 19:42:25 GMT
I am veering towards the mainstream for those long term reasons. I think he's quite capable of some sort of employment and probably living independently. All the special schools here will be broad spectrum, and while Simba has his difficulties he is no where near as disabled as the vast majority of the children in the special. Some were very profoundly disabled, they have far better medical facilities than I've seen in many African towns. All his social activities are mainstream but I think he is missing out on making proper friends because all the cubs and woodcrafters go to the same school and share so much more and he is a bit on the outside The kids at his special school don't mix much socially, only two children in his class have had a birthday party for example, a few of them go to an SEN club but Simba is way beyond most of the kids who go there.
If feels like the special school route is the easy, safest option, the mainstream will be more difficult at first but long term offers the best options for him. It's probably the only mainstream I'd seriously consider on the grounds of size alone, it's about a third the size of most schools here, and I could see him sinking.
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Post by milly on Jun 26, 2014 19:56:28 GMT
Both sound great. If you think mainstream could be right for simba, isn't that the one to go for? That's what I'd do - else you might start wondering "what if he had gone there?" 600 pupils pretty small for a secondary school - compared to those near here, anyway and head sounds great.
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Post by doubletrouble on Jun 26, 2014 20:51:27 GMT
Serrakunda, I think Simba has some similarities to our DD in that I do feel with the right guidance she could make a go of an independent life style and as you say no where near as affected as many other disabled/ASD children. it is a bit of a quandary really that I'm sure a lot of us have as our children are not 'too bad' to fit the profile of the disabled child but also not able to fit into mainstream without help. This applies to other situations too, Children's Services for disabled, charities that help the disabled, specialist clubs and holiday care for disabled children etc. Our children so often fall between two stools and don't fit the criteria for most of these services. Thus I am all for trying to help our children 'fit in' to the mainstream world. Wish we lived where you do your choice sounds a great one to have.
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Post by annie70 on Jun 26, 2014 21:51:22 GMT
My brother has LD (39 now) and he went to mainstream infants / Juniors and then secondary. He was always at the bottom for everything but people generally accepted him and supported him and it gave him the confidence to explore areas he was interested in (karate club, movie club etc) and get to be good at those more vocational areas ... he is quite a thinker and a quiet / contemplative conversationalist and that environment allowed him to explore ideas and thoughts with others who respected that fact he had an opinion.
Then he moved to a special college which was more about job skills and independent living and he was one of - if not the most able. He stopped learning and lost his confidence as there was no-one to bounce ideas off / communicate with on a level and the staff spent all their time with the severely disabled making sure they provided basic care (as they should).
I am not saying the special school would be wrong for Simba but if he has more ability than most at the special school, an interest in the world and likes to learn and ask questions / be challenged occasionally maybe the mainstream school would be best for him.
Good luck Ax
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Post by leo on Jun 26, 2014 23:22:01 GMT
If you feel he has a good chance of managing the mainstream school then I would opt for that as it doesn't have to be set in stone and could change in a few years - but a move from mainstream to special if he's not coping would be far easier to manage than a move the other way if he's 'out performing' the special school environment. Broad spectrum special could then almost be your safety net.
I hope that doesn't come across as negative because it's not intended in that way; from your posts in the past it sounds as if Simba really would thrive in mainstream - especially as he already ably accesses so many mainstream activities outside school.
I haven't got to face your dilemma for a few years yet but am very envious of a secondary school with only 600 children; most of the primaries near here have nearly that number and the three nearest secondaries all have over 1800!
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Post by serrakunda on Jun 26, 2014 23:36:01 GMT
I think we have to give the mainstream a go, he is doing well at his primary placement, academically he wouldnt be on his own, I think it's just the thought of him losing the protection he gets at special that bothers me. But over cosseting him isn't the answer either. Just have to bite the bullet.
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Post by moo on Jun 27, 2014 5:16:31 GMT
Aww serrakunda tuff decision.... Good news both sound brill....
Think I'm with everyone else... Give mainstream a go ( sounds almost un - mainstream & very caring & nurturing ) As already mentioned it will be tuff changing the other way around if special too special for Simba's needs.... I think the 600 mainstream sounds outstanding....
Good Luck........
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by milly on Jun 27, 2014 5:44:07 GMT
Double trouble, you are right. Our children do fall between two stools. Or at least, dd1 does - she seems like a normal kid a lot of the time and gets treated that way but she isn't quite. And it's hard to know how to deal with that.She does manage mainstream, certainly academically and practically , but has so many little oddities. Had her parents evening this week - teachers very positive but her oddities came through all their comments. One said she was the best child at being aggravating he had ever known(!) but he also had lots of positives to say because she isn't always like that.
Its hard always being on guard re school, clubs, friendships - all need managing but she sort of gets it. Everyone expects her to improve including me, but maybe she just won't...?
Sorry to hijack.
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Post by corkwing on Jun 27, 2014 6:52:45 GMT
Hi, Serrakunda -
You're a great parent and you'll make a good decision!
Love,
Corkwing
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Post by peartree on Jun 27, 2014 7:38:58 GMT
Agree, it's totally your decision but here are my thoughts.
If he could possibly manage in mainstream it will help him more as a young adult. He has got to be able to engage with the world at some level and some point and the secondary small caring option does sound the best to me from your post. Has he looked at either school? He may go to the SEN school and think "these children are not like me" and not fit in. That seems to matter at secondary and college to my children who need to feel they "belong" I would make it crystal clear to the school that even though simba is adopted he needs at least as much tlc as lac Frankly, most schools here a far less equipped that these 2 choices so either way I would hope that simba would be well contained and assisted.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 8:26:32 GMT
Mainstream does seem to be the way to go as it does seem small and nurturing and Simba is a bright lad who with help could do so well.
With a caring Mum like you behind him, I think he will surprise us all.
Go for it, if it doesn't work out, then no harm done, you will have given him every opportunity to shine.
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Post by justbserene11 on Jun 27, 2014 8:34:16 GMT
I used to work at a mainstream school that had quite a high proportion of SEN children (it even had an SRP for ASD).
It can work but like PT said it needs to be tightly managed.
Our ASD and some statemented children had a supervised 'base' where they could go if they wanted to at break/lunchtime. This worked, as sometimes the other children were less tolerant of them, the school was large so could be noisy etc and so this base was very calm. It was also a place they could go if say they 'forgot' what subject they had etc and the staff based there really were a support to the form tutors and HOY (who may not nesscessarily be readily available all the time).
Obviously, being mainstream the majority of subjects (core mainly) are set and the lower sets had smaller classes and children would often have a TA assigned to them. One thing our school did, was to use one TA for several children in a class as they argued that a class could have more staff than pupils in them. Often these lower sets had the same students in them and often the more disruptive of children (the school was in a deprived area and had many pupils with poor numeracy/literacy). Therefore, the class would have to be tightly managed so that learning could take place.
What proportion of students have SEN at this mainstream school? Do they have any other ASD Students already? How do they support these students?
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Post by serrakunda on Jun 27, 2014 9:34:54 GMT
Dont know the percentage but they have loads of ASD children, I looked in about 6 classes, they all had 5 or 6 ASD kids in. The nuture unit is also a safe base where they can go at breaks, and there is students reception they can go to in they forget things,
PTs point about fitting in is interesting. I think Simba looks and comes across as different from most of the kids in his current school, but he is oblivious,he just accepts people for what they are, which on one level is great. Last summer we met a 17 year old Downs boy, Simba was a bit taken aback by his behaviour, I tried to point out that he was just like F, a downs boy in his class but he just didnt see the connection or similarities. It might be a lot starker in the secondaries though, a very large proportion of the kids were wheelchair users and used either makaton or BSL. In his current school there is no one as profoundly disabled as children I saw yesterday, but as all the special secondaries will be broad spectrum in 2015, that will be the case for all of them
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Post by donatella on Jun 27, 2014 11:00:53 GMT
The fitting in thing is interesting and a difficult balance - Ds is currently in ebd school and has fitted in in some ways because his behaviour was similar. However he's never fitted academically because he's way brighter than the majority of children there. Luckily they've recognized this and pushed him. He's off to an ASD unit in a mainstream in September for his last primary year. The aim is that he will start a slow transition to some small mainstream classes. Build him up slowly so that at some point he may be better able to cope.
Aspergers/hfa is a tricky one and very hard to find the right place - complex needs too complex, mainstream too hard!
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