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Post by corkwing on May 14, 2014 14:34:25 GMT
We had a PEP meeting at Mackerel's school (very good school for kids with behavioural, emotional and social difficulties). His behaviour has spiralled down a long, long way to the point that I wonder whether he'll be able to make it through.
His explanation is "I don't like school; it's boring".
It got me thinking how compliant most kids are. I mean, we send them to school from age 5 to 18; most of them at least say they don't like school. They come home and do homework for hours on subjects that bore them rigid - I did Latin for four years, for goodness sake! And all for no obvious gain to themselves.
In a way it feels like Mackerel's response is much more natural.
Weird!
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Post by milly on May 14, 2014 16:41:55 GMT
I know what you mean. I always felt dd1's responses to things were perfectly reasonable, although the vast majority of children wouldn't respond in the same way. Eg waiting to see a doctor is boring so rampage round the room and touch other people's bags to see what is in them etc (I am speaking of her here as she was as a toddler btw, she wouldn't do it now!)
But I think most people don't really mind basically and a lot of kids probably do enjoy school - if they like pleasing the teacher, being seen to do well by others, enjoy a challenge or are even interested in a particular subject etc. I liked school.
My dd has a lot in common with my brother who was/ is also a bit of an outsider and a loner in some ways. As a middle aged man he still challenges things other people just take for granted - whether the signposted route is the best way or whether traffic lights change too often or why people watch their kids swim when they could be getting exercise themselves etc etc! It's sort of man thing maybe, but my DH isn't like that, my brother takes it to more of an extreme. He understands if you explain it - it's just that he challenges it. dd is like that - if she sees a different way to do something she will, whereas I'll be either not thinking about it or feeling I have to conform. Interesting to live with!
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Post by larsti on May 14, 2014 17:38:51 GMT
Yes I know what you mean Corkwing
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Post by sooz on May 14, 2014 17:54:34 GMT
Oh yes, I get that.... I was that way myself!!
Snooz does just not get WHY he has to go to school, it's soooo boring, he can be compliant but mostly oppositional and a master at manipulation as his new lsa is just discovering!
I don't tell him I know how he feels, but I do!
Milly, your brother sounds fab!!
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Post by serrakunda on May 14, 2014 18:07:29 GMT
Simba loves learning, we often have arguments about why he can't go to school on weekends. But our education system is so one size fits all, there are so many kids who would be far better off being let out of the classroom and learn a trade instead.
I feel much the same way about being stuck in an office , it's sooooooooo boriiiiiiiiiiiing
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Post by ham on May 14, 2014 21:07:45 GMT
Each person is unique and one size does not fit all.some people are academic others practical or creative.education should be more fexiable and no so prescriptive Keep the formal for those who need that style of learning.some just need life skills. Sometimes changing terminolgy. When dd was at college they did not do the core subjects as the tutors knew the students would not attend the lessons - they did meteorology and barge very clever disguises for English and maths the students not bored and went to the lesson.
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Post by pingu on May 14, 2014 23:10:39 GMT
Barge?
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Post by moo on May 15, 2014 3:46:12 GMT
Yep I'm still working on that pingu!.!?
So with you Corkwing.... baa struggles " why don't we learn about the countryside & our animals mummeee it is so much more interesting.... Everyone could come here & watch them as we learn it would be great..... " Getting to be so reasoned in his discussion/argument that it makes for difficult answers or explanation!?!?! Agricultural college here we come then at age 8!!??!?!?
So not off the wall after all then?!?
Your brother has a very 'interesting ' take on things milly.....
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by corkwing on May 15, 2014 6:46:42 GMT
Milly -
Sounds like I'm a bit like your brother!
Corkwing
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Post by pingu on May 15, 2014 8:58:52 GMT
One thing I remember thinking at school was how early years learning includes lots of practical stuff, including nature, countryside, garden ( farm) crafts, arts, sports. But by the time it gets to secondary school this has become a very small part , ( except compulsory pe) of the day. Some stuff, particularly natural world related has disappeared entirely by secondary school. Yet more of this would be beneficial to all, including the academic kids,but especially the less so, for a number of reasons and sets other learning in a real context.. My ds2 is in a school on the edge of town , and they sometimes visit the farm next door , particularly to use its fields for cross country, but also done projects about the animals or food related. The farm people have a boy that is a pupil in the school, originally approached the school I think, and asked if their was any way that coming to the farm would be useful in the curriculum. Maybe you could do the same moo? John Seymour, the old environmentalist and farmer who wrote a lot of books in the past on this subject, was a strong advocate of " education on the farm" as making all the difference to many boys who feel like Mackeral. Maybe he would enjoy helping out with something animal related, or farm related, I help with scouts and our troop get outside at every opportunity, rain or shine, and the boys learn much more than being cooped up in the hall. Even cerebral stuff is remembered better when taught outside. Ds2 school had a day when all subjects were taught outside, even maths, and it was so successful that they repeated it next year, personally I would repeat it all the time! And why does sitting outside for lessons rarely seem to happen anymore, and never in secondary?!!!
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Post by milly on May 15, 2014 14:54:34 GMT
And I thought my brother was a one off!
I agree Pingu. The curriculum has become so formal and little practical work gets done. Recently dd, year 8, was talking about something she had learnt in science so I asked if they had done practical work on it. No, she says, the teacher has banned the class from practical work for half a term for bad behaviour. Now I'm a teacher and I know practical work is tricky if the behaviour is an issue, but really - half a term!?! How about reminding them re the rules and giving them another chance? Dd is very curious and likes practical learning - she is just the type to love science, but currently hates it.
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Post by milly on May 15, 2014 14:57:11 GMT
Oh and she loves animals more than anything. She would run your farm for you,Moo. At 4 she exasperated the staff at a farm by feeding the goats for half an hour. The other kids all wandered off before 10 mins were up.
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Post by ham on May 15, 2014 18:01:54 GMT
Barge- dd college backed onto a canal and had their own barge the students could use.
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Post by pingu on May 15, 2014 21:01:40 GMT
Thanks Ham, that.solves the mystery.!!!
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Post by larsti on May 16, 2014 12:52:58 GMT
I thought I had posted....seems I haven't!
Boredom at school is a big problem! There's the 'gifted' children who are bored and the less able who have switched off and everybody in between.
And compliance as a quality is overrated IMHO (speaking as someone who was an academically able, compliant child who hated school, certainly secondary `school).
I have read quite a lot of stuff about unschooling (John Holt) for example and stuff online. School is socialization thing and I don't mean children learning to get on with others, I mean learning to comply.
I must say though I am rather conflicted because I have my eye out for a school for Dash
I will get off my soap box now!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 16:38:39 GMT
Trouble is schooling these days is all about conforming and being like everyone else. There isn't much room for individuality and it's not encouraged at all. I went to a private Catholic school and it was sooooo oppressive. Just do what you are told and you'll have an easy life - Dare to stick your head above the parapet or express an opinion that was different from the norm and you were branded a trouble maker and they came down on you like a ton of bricks - made you sit at the front under the teachers nose and kept on top of you all the time. So I learned to be quiet, not express myself, toe the line and cause as little fuss as possible - that way I got to sit in the back row and do nothing. Individuality was frowned upon as something they had to beat out of you (and they did with some kids ), so as a result all my reports said "jmk is very quiet, she does not join in in many discussions - should participate more" etc etc. Probably explains why I am a gobby opinionated whatsit these days - So blame my school!!!!
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Post by larsti on May 20, 2014 21:10:28 GMT
Well, I'm glad you found your voice jmk
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Post by pingu on May 20, 2014 21:37:32 GMT
I've been working inschool kitchens lately, and the noticeable thing about schools now is how much more human the teachers are towards the kids, than in my days at school. Teachers used to be the fierce dragons, but now the kids are relaxed in their presence and certainly round here most of the kids seem to enjoy school, if only for the social side!
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