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Post by nzhb on Apr 30, 2014 20:26:05 GMT
Here we go again - this is clearly thae year of the battle for our family.
My AD is doing SATS ( yuck)
As a 'treat' her year are going away to a school trip for 3 days (2 nights)
We have had a MDT meeting last week at school, where they reported all was going well - we had more concerns about her behaviour at times at home.
Class teacher very pleased with her progress & no concerns.
Adoption support & CAMHS very supportive about the importance of said school trip for daughter & how it will help with her self esteem etc.
Yesterday- call from head of school to tell us that they have reluctantly decided that our AD can't go on the trip!
He has stressed that full risk assessment was done - apparently the year leaders who are sorting the trip (not our AD's teacher) have decided that she can't go in case she is rude to someone & in case they can't find her....
No consultation with us, as usual.
Head has suggested that as a compromise he will take AD to the school trip for one day only - he will drive her down & bring her back.
FFS - what are they playing at?
My daughter is aware of this - & unsurprisingly doesn't want to do this plan. She can't understand why she can't go - says it is because she is adopted & whenever anything goes wrong at school , she always gets the blame.
She has never been in detention, nor excluded, is not violent.
For those of you who have read my other posts, you will be aware that we have had some new emotional problems at home & have adoption support & Camhs on board. School say they haven't had any of these probs in the classroom.
Earlier this year AD had to leave a drama club ( see my prev thread) under unsubstansiated allegations from an older boy ( who doesn't like her).
So she was angry & upset - school were aware & she had a very rough week at school with some angry outbursts.
The teachers who have decided she can't go on the trip witnessed 2 of these outburst & have decided that she may be like this on the trip!
They know nothing about what has happened to AD & have not been part of the private MDT's that we have had with school.
So - what next?
I have involved adoption support, who are going to talk with the school.
My daughter is in denial, is angry, tearful & we await the fall out from this decision.
School were v aware that a refusal to go on the trip would cause problems for all of us.
There are further trips in year 7 & 8 & already school are indicating that they won't be considering her as a candidate for these trips either.
My daughter has done Brownie trips away & a 3 day trip away with her previous school with no problems.
We would not have anticipated any problem with this forthcoming trip.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I am feeling v emotional about all of this - my daughter is the only girl in the year who isn't allowed to go.
She is on school action plus & there is extra funding in place for her.
Why can't school use this to help with supervision?
She has DLA too and has ADHD. Are the school breaking disability act?
Why is life so difficult for our kids? It seem to me that prejudice is everywhere.
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Post by Ad-minnie! on Apr 30, 2014 21:05:35 GMT
Oh - I am so angry and sad for you and your dd nzhb. As I haven't had to deal with school yet (LO too little) I don't have any advice but it sounds appalling. Can't the school see the impact on her self esteem? I think that's an interesting question about the disability act. It does seem like discrimination doesn't it?
I do hope people come along with some ideas for you about what to do.
Sending hugs x
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Post by Ad-minnie! on Apr 30, 2014 21:11:18 GMT
This is from GOV.UK website. Its just a summary but I think the one I have highlighted could be of interest.
Disability Rights Education
It’s against the law for a school or other education provider to treat disabled students unfavourably. This includes:
- ‘direct discrimination’ - eg refusing admission to a student because of disability
- ‘indirect discrimination’ - eg only providing application forms in one format that may not be accessible
- ‘discrimination arising from a disability’ - eg a disabled pupil is prevented from going outside at break time because it takes too long to get there
- ‘harassment’ - eg a teacher shouts at a disabled student for not paying attention when the student’s disability stops them from easily concentrating
- victimisation – eg suspending a disabled student because they’ve complained about harassment
Isn't the onus on the school to provide the support to enable her to go based on the above? A bit like an employer has to make reasonable adjustments to enable a disabled person to work for them.
Not sure if it helps but thought it might be of interest.
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Post by damson on Apr 30, 2014 21:20:12 GMT
I think the school should be making 'reasonable adjustments' which means extra supervision to allow her to go.
Do you have Parent Partnership where you live? They help parents with SEN children deal with schools.
It does sound discriminatory.
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Post by esty (archive) on Apr 30, 2014 21:21:34 GMT
I'm with Ad - minnie it is illegal to stop her going on the trip.
They have to make arrangements to include her. I am close to erupting over the pettiness of people who have children's lives in their hands.
What would they do if it was their child?
I could swear now!
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Post by milly on Apr 30, 2014 21:31:25 GMT
I would fight it. My dd went on a three night year 6 trip - also ADHD and School action plus - school sent an extra member of staff for her - their idea. (They annoyed me by having a closely written 2 page behaviour plan for it which I felt was unwarranted - and there were no incidents as it happens - but that is another story). I would think it is discrimination.
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Post by esty (archive) on Apr 30, 2014 21:50:58 GMT
Yes it is!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 23:33:13 GMT
Outrageous!! I would most definately fight it.
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Post by moo on May 1, 2014 6:44:24 GMT
Brilliant post by Minnie...
Take it in & show it to the head.... Send a letter complaining to the chair of the board of governors & include Minnie's paragraph...
After all she has a grant of £1.900 pupil premium?!?? Maybe?!? Even if she doesn't they are dutibound to have a member of staff allocated to her....
Good Luck.....
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by justbserene11 on May 1, 2014 6:54:19 GMT
Wow! I worked previously worked at a school with a high proportion of SEN children (ASD) and the school was in a deprived area so the children could be challenging. As a head of department we were categorically told that we HAD to take all children on any trip, as we would be discriminating against them if we didn't. I remember once taking a child (who had ASD and was a selective mute and taking an extra TA to support him. Quite frankly, your AD school is taking the........ They are discriminating against your daughter and it is not right and I can feel your pain that she is being excluded. Being a teacher myself, how are they going to guarantee that other pupils won't be rude to members of the public or run off? Personally, I think that it is a lame excuse as to why she cannot go. I would try parents partnerships (as has been suggested) and ask that they take extra support. (TA) to support AD on the trip (couldn't they use PP to fund it?) I would also write to the head and the governors including with it the info AD-minnie has given you. By writing, they will have to write back to you and keep it on their records for OFSTED (I'd maybe be inclined to contact them too). It will be interesting to know what their response will be once they know that you know that what they are doing is against the law!!!  |
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Post by ham on May 1, 2014 7:07:05 GMT
yes discrimination just to prove it can be done if staff are willing. when ds2 was at secondary( special school) school but was often too ill or refusing to go to school they put loads of things in place to allow the trip to go ahead it was something he wanted to do. the same named member staff was responsible for him for the week. all was aware of his very comprehensive risk assessment. they all knew his trigger points and how to deal with them. We were on the end of the phone. sadly when he got there he was too ill , lost it,broke a window and he had to be collected because HE did not want to stay and was then my choice to pick him up. . the school were willing for him to stay they successfully took him on extended day trips that interested him. I do know people who have stayed near by in case of emergencies don't know if that is feasible. complain in writing to the governors. Have some ideas how your daughter can be supported by the school so the trip can go a head. contact parent partnership Family, Child & Education Legal Advice www.childrenslegalcentre.com/08088 020 008 Mon-Fri 8am-8pm Free legal advice on English law and policy affecting children and families. try www.sossen.org.uk/also councilors and MP if need be. good luck |
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Post by loadsofbubs on May 1, 2014 7:12:27 GMT
definitely kick up a fuss. this happened to my AS in year 3, yes he can go, yes he can go all year through until a week before the trip when I was told, ah, sorry, cant go becoz his TA wont supervise him out of school hours (whole different story is the TA!). He would also have been the only child not going and the only reason they gave was that without the TA supervising him there was no one to help him with his toileting needs (he was faecally incontinent, in pull ups). I involved the SEN department at the LEA and spoke to his teacher who was actually unaware of the TA's decision and decided to be his 1:1 in the out of school hours. he did go on the trip but I removed him from the school a few weeks later, this was the last but one straw that broke the camels back.
and as a former teacher and TA my experience of taking disruptive pupils on trips (not suggesting your DD is one of these) is that their behaviour is often better than that of the other pupils, have never had a problem even with a young man who in the classroom would throw chairs and deck another child for simply looking at him. he stayed with me all day, was polite and well behaved. back to chair throwing at school, but out of school he was a delight!
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Post by justbserene11 on May 1, 2014 9:55:40 GMT
Well said loadsofbubs! That was the case with me also, as I had more issues with the well behaved kids than the more challenging ones (I think it was being in a different environment and doing something different also).
Please, please, please write to the head etc as OFSTED will see this. Going to the LEA would help also.
Keep us posted
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Post by nzhb on May 1, 2014 9:55:58 GMT
Thank you all so much.
I have spoken with my ASW today who has spoken with the school. School are going to rethink, but we have been warned that the situation may not change.
School are aware of my ad's fragile emotional state re all of this & further rejection etc etc. Head is sympathetic & is going to go away & think about it.
I have been advised not to do anything until situation clearer.
I have stated to ASW that if school do not facilitate this trip then I think they are breaking Disability Discrimination Law & I would use it & involve Parent Partnership etc.
My AD is very wound up currently - asked for her ADHD meds this am - never does this!
On top of all of this she is very stressed re practising for SATS.
I just feel worn out. If life feels horrible for me, how must it be feeling for my AD?
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Post by serrakunda on May 1, 2014 10:10:27 GMT
Poor lamb, how horrible for her, I hope you can get it sorted for her so she can show them how wrong they are. Trouble is though if they decide to let her go she will know that they didn't really want her , but important as well so they don't try to exclude her from other trips
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Post by damson on May 2, 2014 15:51:15 GMT
Talk to Parent Partnership anyway - nice people, know which way is up, often know who to talk to in each school, and what vocabulary to use in schools. They will also know exactly how DDA applies in primary and secondary schools.
When is the trip?
When our DD went on a PGL holiday following on from ASD diagnosis, PGL asked us to get references from the people who had taken her on trips before (school, youth group etc). So your Brownie leader's experience would be useful.
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Post by sooz on May 2, 2014 18:18:52 GMT
Oh this makes me so sad. I was not allowed on a school trip due to a physical disability, loooong time ago now, and it was horrible being the only child not allowed to go. I also know that if the school had been made to take me, it would have been awful too, knowing they hadn't really wanted me there.
Setting her up to fail. So shortsighted!
I'm disgusted, really and truly. Poor girl. Xxx
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Post by sooz on May 2, 2014 19:26:33 GMT
Me either Madrid  |
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Post by nzhb on May 2, 2014 23:17:14 GMT
Well further update
Our ASW has spoken with Head again & it appears the school have been through the 'risk score' with a fine toothcombe. Result - still my DD can't go.
School says it is to do with the size of the school trip - there will be other pupils from other schools there & older children & PGL won't be doing any supervision once the activities stop, it is up to the school staff to do this.
School say they have no one they can take as extra support & that they are worried about my AD in unstructured times.
They haven't said whether they are worried about what my AD will do to others or what others will do to her. They are also worried that she will be rude to the PGL staff.
They say they understand the effect it will have on my ad's self esteem & how she will perceive it as rejection.
But, they stick by their decision.
So what now - my beef is that we haven't been consulted about any of this, haven't been involved in the risk assessment. My daughter came home with a list of the things they would need for the trip - has already packed her suitcase & chosen her 'disco clothes'.
Of course we will meet with the school - they have offered this. - but I feel I will lose it & am not emotionally able to deal with this now.
We will write a letter to Goveners & Head stating our dissatisfaction with the whole process & will look again at the Disability Act.
School say they don't want to set our child up to fail & that it would be awful if she had to be brought home if she didn't behave.
We see it as they have decided she has failed already, & aren't even going to give her a chance.
We have never been asked to collect our AD from any school event or school day because of bad behaviour.
We know she can struggle in unstructured times, but this doesn't feel like concern for our daughter, more concern that the school cover their backs.
Tonight she has come home from school and asked if we can spend the w/e helping her with revision for SATs.
I feel like telling her to forget the whole f..ing lot as there won't be a treat for her for working hard & trying to do her best.
Certainly I won't be sending her into school on the 3 days her peers are on their trip, & I don't care if it is marked as unagreed absence.
I will also be asking what plans the school have in place for supporting her after THEY have told her of the decision ( I don't see why I should have to give the bad news) & what they are planning to do to reward her for effort in her SATS as she is clearly considered to be SO different from her peers.
Our compromise is that we go down to the trip ourselves & book into a hotel nearby & she spends the days with the trip, has tea & then we collect her & she stays with us for the nights. We will suggest this to them.
If this isn't accepted then a formal complaint may ensue.
What ever happens this is all ammunition for our application for statementing, which has been resisted by school so far.
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Post by milly on May 3, 2014 6:53:53 GMT
That's terrible. I find it hard to believe they can't find anyone extra to go with her to support her. Its only for a few days. Your compromise is one we considered, although not because the school ever suggested our dd couldn't go,but because we worried how she might cope at night - she had a history of becoming very agitated when away from us over night. Anyway I can't see how they could reasonably object to it.
The other thing is could you just go on the trip as a helper? Either for her or to release another member of staff? I can understand your dd might prefer you not to but if it meant she could go, she might accept it, if the school allow it. I teach and we use parent helpers to help staff our year 6 trip.
Know what you mean re feeling too emotional to manage the meeting - can you take someone with you who will be able to stay calm?
Good luck
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bigredbus
New Member
Married Adopter
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Post by bigredbus on May 3, 2014 7:36:09 GMT
This is cruel beyond belief, especially doing it at the last minute.
I would write a strongly worded letter and hand deliver it to the head teacher first thing Mon morning.
look up and quite the "equalities act" (overtook the disabilities act) and stress how she is being discriminated against and how damaging this is to her self esteem.
sign the bottom and having cc'd in everyone you can think of with 'clout'. ( senco, head of sen at la, equal opportunities officer at la, head of children's services, head of education, adoption worker, head of disabilities team/ inclusion,parent partnership, ep etc, MP, if a church school the diocese school advisor, linked priest etc... Go on your local council website, look up their names and job titles )
I would then send and e-mail it to every person I could think of, including every professional who works with your child, in the hope that school would be totally shamed by their actions and that pressure and money may be found and put upon the school to change their minds, man up and pay a support worker if needed to be with her.
this is bad management by them. If a child needs 1:1 support on trips this can be done, and should have been thought out in the planning stage. They have failed to do this. they can't just throw this at you and let her down.
This is absolutely disgusting behaviour and they can't be allowed to do this to your child.
challenge them, they should not get away with this.
I have found parent partnership to be very good at explaining the law and supportive re. Discrimination when we had an issue.
am so angry for you and your child.
good luck getting it sorted.
bigredbus
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Post by sooz on May 3, 2014 8:15:29 GMT
This is so wrong on so many levels.
If this was happening to a child with a physical disability I can imagine the backlash.
I would go as a helper, if that's doable for you, although you shouldn't have to. It could be the best outcome for your dd.
At the very least this should have been sorted months ago, discussed with you, they could have given their concerns and between you, you probably would have reached a solution. But now it's a lose lose situation.
I would also ask them what they intend to do with your dd while everyone else is away, and, probably, what will they be doing with her while everyone else is discussing what they did, what they learned, comparing experiences and photos etc....
I'm sure the pgl staff have encountered a few rude kids in their time (not suggesting your dd will be rude) and coped! It sounds very much to me that the school are more concerned about their own reputation than be concerned about a young girl who probably needs this experience more than most.
It's shameful.
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Post by jollymummy on May 4, 2014 8:07:54 GMT
What about contacting the venue, explaining the situation and asking them their views? You could also tell the local paper.
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Post by nzhb on May 4, 2014 20:09:41 GMT
Well I have been an awful mum this eve . We have had to speak with Ad re the non trip - she can't understand it, is very angry - wants to write to the head & the goveners ( good on you girl - go for it) & says she will just get on the bus with the others & go any way.
Point blank refuses to go on just one day with the head teacher
Says she knows which group of children she was supposed to be with ( not sure if this is true) & that it isn't fair if she doesn't get to do the fun things in the evening with her firends ( I agree)
But, then today she has broken the lock to my study by jamming it with a nail & my husband has had to 'break in' to get to the things in there ( We lock it cos there as confidential work papers that must stay that way). She has lost her temper, threatened us in a childs way with a stick when we found out what she had done, broken a suitcase under my bed by slicing it open to get some chocolate she thought might be in there. She has refused to eat tea & threatned to leave home as we aren't allowing her to go on the trip - it is our fault apparently for telling school about some of her behaviours- & as I am her mum I should be shorting the trip out & making the school take her.
Wow - it has been a horrible eve. We have all shouted, but have walked away from further confrontation.
She has drawn over her walls.
She is one angry & upset girl ( as am I, again)
Thanks a bunch school.
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Post by cowgirl on May 4, 2014 21:46:35 GMT
Gentle hugs nzhb
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Post by nzhb on May 5, 2014 22:46:15 GMT
Well letter composed , ready for school tomorrow - thank you all for your points - I have been able to put in a few questions that I would not have thought about otherwise. Lets see what happens.
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Post by serrakunda on May 5, 2014 23:00:18 GMT
Good luck, this is just outrageous treatment of your girl.
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Post by nzhb on May 22, 2014 21:21:39 GMT
Well , we have had meeting today
Head apologised re the way it had all been handled.
Meeting was dreadful
Head of year started from viewpoint that my child was a nuisance - her language in playground was offensive ( using sex words inappropriately, apparently), she didn't respect instructions from senior teachers & had walked away when spoken to, she thought my child may steal, may approach older boys, may go into other childrens bedrooms & then proceeded to tell us that the other children didn't want to share with her & that this was a problem AND there had been 3 letters from other parents saying their children were not to go in a dormitary with her! Additionally, I am supposedly always ringing AD's teacher!
I replied that I didn't know anything about this playground behaviour, nothing had been reported to us - she replied that of course I knew ( implied I was lying). I asked her what evidence she had about these 'concerns' about my AD - & she said it was a possibility that all of these things could happen & her job was on the line if anything went wrong. I told her that all of this stuff was news to me - it felt that she wasn't being very facilitatory & that school had not given us any indication of these concerns.
I was almost ready to have walked out.
My DH took over, calmly.
It appears that daughter was being allowed on trip - but they hadn't told us this prior to the meeting! They thought we knew.
Some big deal.
Our SW is worried that they have set the bar so high re behaviour that my AD will fail & we will have to come & get her.
At the moment I AM worried that Head of Year is SO aggressive & authoritarian, that my child won't stand a chance. This head of year admits she had never taught my child & I have never met her before.
I really feel we have been place in a intolerable situation - this is such a hollow 'victory'.
My gut feeling is to get her out of the school. They clearly have no understanding of adoption issues & we should NEVER have been placed in this situation.
I am now left wondering what else my AD is experiencing that the school haven't told us. May be all this unsettled behaviour we have been witnessing is due to school pressure & misunderstanding.
What do we do next?
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Post by justbserene11 on May 24, 2014 14:20:01 GMT
I wanted to say I felt very sad when I read your update.
I can understand why you feel it is a hollow victory, as even though she is allowed to go they have in no uncertain terms told you that they expect her to fail.
You mention that the HOY has never taught AD but cited ALL her supposed 'misdemeanours' .
Personally, I would write to the Headteacher and ask for any evidence of their communication with you in regards to these incidents.
In my previous school, if we telephoned a parent this had to be recorded. If a child misbehaved (in a way in which the HOY described) then surely this also would have been reported in written form? I would also say in this letter, how disappointed you are over the whole situation and how unprofessional the HOY was in the meeting.
By writing, the HT HAS to reply and OFSTED will look at this.
Your AD may have some issues but these are not being helped but hindered by those that should be supporting her. What does the SENCO say?
Have you considered contacting the LA?
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Post by wibbley on May 25, 2014 8:24:04 GMT
That's terrible. Such a bad attitude & miss-understanding of your DDs needs at HoY level is quite an indication of the attitude of the school - it filters down.
My personal response would be a formal complaint & a new, more supportive school for DD. Poor girl.
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