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Post by daffin on Apr 18, 2014 7:14:38 GMT
Hi everyone
We found out earlier this week that Monkey Boy didn't get a place at our first choice Primary School. We got offered our second choice instead. It is a very good school - Outstanding for everything. BUT we have some real reservations. It has classes of 30+ and after Reception children are taught in classes with 2 year groups. I think they make this work well, but I'm not sure it would work well for MB. Our real issue, though, is the Head. She came to the school recently and made various changes and has pushed the Ofsted score to Outstanding in all areas. Well done her. But she reacted poorly to MB's behaviour when we took him round the school and couldn't get us out of there fast enough when we told her that we had 2 adopted kids. We felt that this was because she prioritises Ofsted status above all else and is very ambitious. We don't feel she would be easy to work with about MB's needs. So, although other parents scramble over themselves to get their kids in there we would rather travel an extra 5 minutes down the road to a school with class sizes of 20 and a Head who answered our 3 pages of questions in an open minded way.
My my question is..... What do we need to do to support our appeal? (Both schools are Church Schools and I think this influences the appeals process). In the letter from the LEA they told us that of the 20 kids offered places for September, 12 have siblings already at the school, 4 are within the catchment area and 4 are outside the catchment. No LAC children were offered a place. I am really surprised that MB's status as a former LAC child does not trump at least some of the other kids offered places (though I don't know their circumstances) and wonder if they have made a mistake. I think it's hard for us to know how to approach the appeals process without knowing the grounds upon which he was refused a place. Do you guys know if we are likely to be able to find this out before the appeals deadline?
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Post by moo on Apr 18, 2014 7:36:05 GMT
Bad luck daffin....
I think you need to appeal immediately... That means you then (? May ) get an appointment to present at a tribunal your case....
I was under the impression that they had to offer you your 1st choice school... ( if you disclose adopted & previously looked after status by l.a. for at least 6 months ) think you need confirm by sending the long birth cert if a.o gone thro....
Ask pas to attend tribunal with you.... I do know of a case locally that they botched up & didn't allocate a place to & once contacted & birth cert seen they allocated a place & appeal didn't have to go to tribunal... Place given... Every time I have heard of this in our l.a. A place is always found at first choice school....
The allocated school sounds a disaster waiting to happen!!! Go with your gut & fight.... Your mummy radar is telling you the allocated school just will not do.... Try not to panic ( sorry easier said than done !) remember the law says children do not have to be in school until the term after their 5th birthday ( full term not half ) for summer babies that means they actually don't have to start in reception year at all!!....my point being you have loads of time to be happy with the school allocation.... If you want to delay start ( or indeed do part time for a long while ) all you have to do is apply to county & school... The school should allow you this leeway without any pressure...
Good Luck.... Please Keep Us Posted....
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by sockthing on Apr 18, 2014 8:06:28 GMT
Oh no daffin!
I am SO sorry to hear this. What a worry for you. Am writing in haste, but thoughts off the top of my head...I know church schools are exempt from prioritising LAC children because they are allowed to prioritise faith. So if monkey boy is not baptised or they don't recognise you as regular churchgoers in their denomination this may be why he didn't get a place?
This was a problem for us too, as really I would like Kipper to go to the sweet little catholic school.
Certainly sounds like you have cause for concern. What are your PAS like? If I was in your shoes I would be quite confident that my PAS would write a supporting statement explaining monkey boys needs/issues. But I am lucky that (so far) our PAS team have been excellent and see advocating as an important part of their role.
Moos idea of deferring till he is 5 seems a good one.
Massive hugs and calming aura
Xxxx (((((daffin and monkey))))) xxxx
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Post by sockthing on Apr 18, 2014 8:07:54 GMT
Can you just write to the school governors to ask why he didn't get a place??
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Post by imprudence on Apr 18, 2014 19:50:53 GMT
What does the school's admissions policy say: look on the website for the policy for admissions for Sept 2014.
Does it give high priority to previously LAC? If not is illegal -- appeal.
If it does, did you tell them that MB is adopted? If you did, appeal, they have not followed their procedure.
If you did not tell them, ask to be admitted as an "exception" because if they had had the full facts they would have admitted him. (You may need to check the exact wording of what you want but I think this is right.)
Writing to the governors I a good idea, but (and I am a school governor and deal with admissions) I would not reply very specifically because it might compromise me at appeal.
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Post by leo on Apr 18, 2014 20:48:24 GMT
Sorry to hear that you haven't been given a place. Church schools do have more leeway in their admissions policy but I think the LAC status still over-rides this.
- I would check the actual wording on the DFE/Government guidance as to what it says about priority admissions.
- contact the Head of the virtual school in your area for their support
- get a copy of the school's Admission Policy - and start to pick holes in it!
- go onto the Coram website; they have a handy document about making an appeal
- contact the Chair of Governors and ask for a meeting for them to give you personal feedback/reasoning for their decisions (they may not be willing to before an appeal but it would give them to chance to re-think if they truly didn't know they were breaking the DFE guidance)
- the LA admissions team will know the reason why you were refused a place even if they are not in control of the admissions for that particular school
Good luck; it can be reversed but may take a while and cause a fair bit of stress!
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Post by daffin on Apr 18, 2014 21:21:14 GMT
Thank you so much everyone for your support and ideas. We will follow up on them.
In our application I ticked a box for formerly LAC, specified the placing LA and wrote a long paragraph supporting the application, explaining why we felt that this school met his needs. It's all so disappointing! I thought as parents of formerly LAC children we were in a special position and could effectively pick the best school for our kids with the confidence that we'd get a place. Sigh!
I've looked exhaustively on line for the school's admissions policy and can't find it (it's not on the school's website or on the LEA's). The school does have an inclusion document, though, dated 2012, which includes LAC children (though not formerly LAC) as one of the target groups that they seek to include. LAC children weren't at the top of their bullet pointed list, though....
Of course it's the Easter holidays so I'll have to sit on my hands until the school is open/ people in the LEA admissions office are back at work.....
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Post by gilreth on Apr 18, 2014 22:32:54 GMT
Very strange and disappointing daffin. At our local church school LAC/PLAC are at the very top of the list - the only schools around here that prioritise different are the catholic schools. Sounds like this is a bit of a botch up as MB should have had priority over the non-catchment kids at least. Worth checking that it was absolutely clear that he is previously-LAC and start making representations. Do contact the Chair of Governors to complain formally - as well as the LEA to ensure that it is understood he is PLAC.
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kanga2
Bronze Member
Married Adopter
Posts: 53 
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Post by kanga2 on Apr 22, 2014 10:33:24 GMT
With faith schools, they are allowed to prioritise faith children above non-faith LAC.
So the order for your school might well be something like:
Faith LAC/Adopted
Sibling faith
other faith children
non-faith LAC/adopted
other children
Assuming you don't meet the faith criteria you would be below children of faith and thus didn't get in.
Accept the school you were offered.
Make sure you are on the waiting list for your preferred school.
Consider an appeal to your preferred school.
However, as the appeal is likely to be an Infant Class Size appeal it may be very difficult for you to win an appeal.
If you go onto mumsnet in the Primary Education section you will find some very helpful admissions experts who may be able to advise you.
hope this helps.
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Post by moo on Apr 22, 2014 10:48:18 GMT
Great tip kanga Thanx....
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by runmum on Apr 22, 2014 12:28:43 GMT
Think they have made a mistake. Adopted children get in on rule 1 that's first priority - above siblings and location etc. The only kids who would trump your might be kids with SEN linked specifically to a request for that school or other LAC/former LAC kids with a better case and there would have to be loads of those to mean you did not get a look in so it must be wrong. We have had big difficulties with our school (which was our first choice - we didn't do enough research with real parents with real children with real challenges.) Our boys' school is generally considered a good school but parents with kids with behavioural problems would all give it and the head a big thumbs down. A supportive head and understanding environment is way more important than OFSTED rating or key stage results - the school might get 98% of kids meeting the academic targets but guess what our kids are likely to be in the 2% and yes if they are way behind and have big problems some schools just focus their efforts elsewhere and almost give up. Post Adoption support at the LA really should be able to help with this. Don't let this one go - Monkey Boy will be at primary school 40 weeks a year for almost 7 hours a day for 6 years - if it's not the right place it could have a big impact.
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Post by runmum on Apr 22, 2014 12:35:04 GMT
Actually forgot about the faith bit. Yes Kanga is right if you are not Cof E then you would be considerably down the list. I would follow Kanga's advice but also ask to meet the head of the school where you have a place with someone from post adoption support and agree a strategy in advance if Monkey Boy starting. Our head seemed to have a "Jedi mind swap" when we did this and things are a bit better since.
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Post by daffin on Apr 22, 2014 13:09:57 GMT
Thanks Kanga and runmum. Really helpful.
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Post by sivier on Apr 22, 2014 19:10:23 GMT
Our local church schools both still prioritise LAC/adopted children and SEN which come before religious preferences. Seems as though it's different in various Councils/locations?
It does sound as though you should appeal, especially as there are 'only' 20 children in the class at your first choice school - they should be able to squeeze MB in surely, make an exception for him as one of their 'targeted' groups? He will also attract an additional £1900 of funding into the school through PPP....
Hope it works out for you. Let us know!
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Post by gilreth on Apr 22, 2014 22:25:53 GMT
Seems like it does differ as round here only Catholic schools where Catholics get high priority. All CofE schools have LAC/PLAC as highest priority followed by children of families actively involved in CofE church in catchment, CofE children, other Christian children, siblings, other children in catchment. But do appeal and make sure they didn't muck up. Also should have,admissions policy clearly laid out and available. We got ours when we went to open evening for nursery placement so already know we are fine luckily.
Hugs
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