kazzie
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Post by kazzie on Mar 27, 2014 11:35:49 GMT
Hello thought I would look for some advice here.
'Naughty' is in inverted commas because this is how the SENCo at DD's school is currently describing her.
DD started at secondary school in September last year and all went well last term although we did have one episode of shoplifting from our local shop which was dealt with and she decided to go home with another girl without asking. The SENCo returned her to school so I could pick her up on that occasion.
However this term she has well and truly upped the ante!! I've had a couple of days at the beginning of term when she refused to go to school saying she had tummy ache so I kept her at home for the day doing online schoolwork and generally keeping it very low key. I then got a phone call saying that regardless of what DD was saying about being poorly she had to attend school. My husband was asked to take her in but she managed to get away from him and on to the school bus which he saw her do but then got a phone call from school saying she hadn't arrived and must have got off the bus en route (dedicated school bus) so he contacted the police. School eventually found her locked in a toilet but were more concerned about the heavily pregnant TA who persuaded her to come out and couldn't understand why we might contact the police about a child who disappears on a very rural bus journey near a river.
We've had two more occasions when she's not turned up and I've had to come out of work to come home to find her hiding in a walk-in wardrobe clearly upset about something. She's also managed to 'miss' the bus so I've had to take her into school.
However we have had worse. She was meant to bring a friend home from school one afternoon, arranged with other child's parents but they didn't turn up. I found out that the other child was at the dentist and DD had been seen at the bus stop for the nearest town and apparently when this other child was spoken too was going shopping. It's certainly not a town I would let her go into on her own. It's near the sea and has a big tower. Luckily she didn't get there but she was out for 3 and a half hours on a very foggy evening being looked for by the police. She was very scared when a lovely policeman and I picked her up. One of my problems is that although she has a mobile phone when she does impulsive stuff she won't answer it but eventually we can have a conversation of sorts via text.
The SENCo says, and has told DD this, that she is being very naughty. I'm not quite so sure. Certainly the behaviour is 'naughty' but this is really out of character for her and when I asked her she says it's as though her brain melts and she does stuff that she shouldn't but doesn't know why. She's currently having to stay after school to make up time that she's missed this week which means that either me or DH have to pick her up so we're being punished too.
I am waiting for an appointment for her with a clinical psychologist about something else but it is an incredibly long waiting time - eight months so far although I have contacted my MP to raise my concerns about this.
Help!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2014 12:21:52 GMT
Wow Kazzie, there's a lot going on there in your post.
Welcome to the teen world. A lot of our kids were absolutely fine until they hit their teens. I know your DD is only 11, but puberty and hormones are coming into play a lot earlier these days usually around 10/11 so she is right on target.
Regarding the running away, hiding, not wanting to go to school - Do you know if she is being bullied? Girls can be awfully devious about this unlike boys where it is usually more blatant. Does DD have friends, or could she be being excluded from the "in crowd"? Have there been any other issues at school to change things?
Going missing is something my YDD has done 3 times now, once for 27 hours. The police have told us to get her a phone as they can track her whereabouts if she has one. Speak to your local force about this. They should be able to find her quicker, even if her phone is switched off apparently.
Regarding bringing a friend home - make sure you always have friends parents phone numbers and always call them to check arrangements. I think with kids like ours we have to think younger and not always take what they say at face value, so checking arrangements with other parents is always a good idea, as you would have done at primary school.
This is not "naughtiness" in the regular sense of the word, but is a sign that DD needs help to regulate herself and her impulsiveness. I think you will now have to learn how to "kick up a fuss" in order to get help. The whole system is like wading through treacle and the quiet ones go to the bottom of the queue, so you are going to have to learn how to make a fuss, even if it goes against your nature.
I would go back to your GP and ask for an "urgent referral". You should not have to wait 8 months to be seen - that is madness!! Your DD needs help and soon. The fact that she has already absconded and police have been involved, along with the shop lifting episode shows your DD has needs and will help to be seen soon.
Sorry I've rambled, but so much of it is so typical for our children and the sooner you get help the better. School probably won't get it for ages yet, not until you have been put through the mill and have torn your hair out, had your parenting scrutinized, been made to feel like a carp mum, then the pennies will drop and they will say "Oh, yes now I understand", but this could take months and months, if not years.
Hope others will be along soon to give you more advice.
Hugs, it's hard xx
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Post by flutterby on Mar 27, 2014 14:32:51 GMT
Sorry, if I am being controversial here, but I absolutely hate the word "naughty": In my opinion it is the most misused word in the English language to encompass any behaviour by children which an adult may see as inconvenient for them in some shape or form. At the end of the day, we are the adults, they are the children. We have to take responsibility and do the adult thing, which is support, guide, set boundaries, be empathetic and not to forget, be playful and enjoy them being children.
It is such a cop-out to describe your daughter as naughty. The SenCo is basically saying, I cannot be bothered to think why she may be displaying the behaviour she does, in fact I am not really interested, I just want children to do as they are told and make themselves otherwise invisible. Rather Victorian, if you ask me.
People should not be doing these kind of jobs, if they do not even recognize children as people and individuals with differing needs and an acceptance that some may come with baggage.
Sorry, I know my post is probably not helpful in terms of advice of some sort, but it is out of order to expect children to be more regulated than adults. Because this is basically what they are asked to do in order to make the adults life easier.
Great advice from JMK. Your daughter sounds scared, confused and lost. What she needs is help, guidance and understanding (and maybe some tough love), but not a label.
Hope you will get somewhere quick and are able to receive the help you need. xx
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Post by twoplustwo on Mar 28, 2014 9:02:59 GMT
I'm not keen on the 'naughty' word either. I agree with flutterby about its misuse. Jmk's advice is excellent - kicking up a fuss is often the only way to get any help and a sympathetic GP is a terrific ally. One of the SENCo's at Stig's primary school went down the 'naughty' route. Luckily for us the other SENCo was wonderful. Some SENCos' idea of 'special needs' seems archaic - of the 'if I can't see the problem it doesn't exist so the child is just being 'naughty'' school of thought.  Our children need help not an unhelpful label. |
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Post by milly on Mar 28, 2014 10:33:05 GMT
I hate the word 'naughty' too as it implies a deliberate choice to behave badly and that is very often not the case, especially with our traumatised children. You need to see the behaviour as communication - your dd is not coping / has emotional needs that are not being met. A child wouldn't run away or avoid school unless there was something traumatic going on for them. My elder dd has never run away or refused to go to school (yet, anyway) but her poor behaviour is definitely her main way of expressing her feelings, and punishing her for it is counter - productive as it makes her feel worse and leads to more bad behaviour (I call it a negative spiral)
Secondary school is a major change for a child - I guess she may have forced herself to cope initially or the novelty of it was engaging enough to keep her on the straight and narrow - perhaps she was enjoying making new friends etc. But now she is finding it all too much and showing you this.
I would go back to the gp and ask for an urgent referral but you are more likely to get immediate results if you can engage the school to look at her needs and how they could meet them. The senco sounds very difficult to work with which makes it hard. Could you get some post adoption support or talk to parent partnership or similar so that you can get someone to go into school with you to back you up - sadly they are more likely to listen to another professional.
In the meantime, I think if my dd was acting so unsafely I would be keeping her at home (ie off school), or at the very least, delivering her to school and collecting her from it, and restricting her freedoms generally. Not as a punishment but because she clearly needs closer supervision and some tlc. But if you need to work, I can see that must be a difficult decision to make.
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Mar 28, 2014 16:16:21 GMT
Sounds like the Senco doesn't have quite the right attitude.
I think i'd start with writing to school, LEA SEN team and transport team highlighting the incident when she went AWOL asking for help in helping her keep safe, as she is unable to do it herself.
Presumably you chose this school because you felt it would meet her needs more than the closer school - I would write to school comparing what they said at the beginning vs what they are actually proposing to help her.
I think if she doesn't want to go to school, due to tummy ache etc you are going to be unable to make her. (I've had it a bit with my 13 yr old this year), - I can't physically get her out of bed, dressed, in the car and delivered to school. I think you have to work out, collaboratively, with your DD and school what the problems are and what the answers are.
I agree with Milly that either/both parent partnership/Post Adoption should be able to help you.
PP might have some ideas re transport too.
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kazzie
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Post by kazzie on Mar 29, 2014 21:43:46 GMT
Thanks for the replies. They're really helpful.
It was the Paediatrician who referred DD to the Clinical Psychologist so I guess that if I went to our GP they wouldn't be able to help. What I have done however is write to our MP who has written to the Chief Executive of the Mental Health Trust asking them to explain the long waiting list so am waiting to hear back.
We chose the school because they said that they were able to meet DD's needs and according to the SENCo had many years experience with adopted children and reassured us that they would accommodate her unique qualities - at the time her toy rabbit went everywhere with her. DD also liked it when we looked round plus it is the smallest of our 3 local high schools - the nearest one is much bigger and a high achieving academy - lots of emphasis on results which we thought she'd struggle with. Most of her Guide Company go to her school too.
One of her difficulties is that she struggles to understand when she is being teased or being picked on. It's a good 20 minute bus journey to the school and she can be easily wound up so I think that is a problem plus what we were told about the bus monitors being responsible and watching out for the younger children has now become the monitor is only a child themselves and not expected to report any problems that they may notice. The other children did take it upon themselves to 'tell her off' for getting on the bus into the town as well so I think she then chose to avoid getting on the bus in the morning. She is too big for me to physically get her into the car as well although I have taken her into school a couple of times this week and we've had to pick her up after Detention to make up some of the time she's missed. She does have a EBD Statement.
To complete my week DH and I each received a letter from the attendance officer today commenting on her poor attendance, which includes various hospital appointments, which implied the next step would be legal action against us so I will be ringing her on Monday especially because they chose to send a text instead of ringing when DD failed to turn up at school at the beginning of the week.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 8:08:29 GMT
It doesn't sound as if school is working with you Kazzie. Sending letters about her lack of attendance is ridiculous as her hospital appointments are authorized absences which should be recorded as such on their system. I am assuming you tell the school every time about these appointments. If DD is not attending or doesn't show up then you should get a phone call at the very least. Perhaps you and DH should ask to have a meeting with her HOY to discuss how she can be supported.
You mention that she "struggles to understand when she is being teased or being picked on", has she ever been assessed for autism? Does she have friends or does she struggle with relationships? I don't know if you have any CAMHS intervention.
Hugs to you. it is hard when our children are struggling. I know I was fortunate in that both my DD's always loved school so I never had any problem getting them there.
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Post by milly on Mar 30, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
If she has a statement then presumably there is an educational psychologist involved. Could you contact them and explain how school isn't meeting her needs at the moment, despite the statement? The one our dd has at the moment seems great and invited us to contact her any time.
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kazzie
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Post by kazzie on Mar 31, 2014 22:13:23 GMT
The Attendance Officer was actually really helpful when I spoke to her today. She did apologise about the letter and did say that if it were up to her the hospital appointments wouldn't be included. The paediatrician was pretty certain that autism isn't an issue so we'll just have to await the clinical psychologist's opinion when it comes. Although the high school is in the same district as DD's primary they use different educational psychologists and I'm guessing that the SENCo would be pretty resistant to any further intervention at present. DD was upset when she came home from school today although determined to persevere with the bus although I may contact the Safer School Transport team tomorrow to see if they have any suggestions as to how to make the journey easier for her. |
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Post by pingu on Apr 16, 2014 22:02:59 GMT
Just wondered if she would be allowed a music player of some sort that she could use on the journey ( my younger son has an iPod nano, which can basically only play music, and preloaded videos. It has no internet ability) along with a pair of cheap earplugs, it's something a lot of kids do, and it cuts the social interaction on the bus ( and therefore perhaps lessen the chances of conversational nastiness, listening to music might help her stay calm as well, if she is aware of beginning to have a meltdown.
Might not be helpful, or allowed just an idea.
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