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Post by sivier on Mar 21, 2014 13:08:10 GMT
It's not huge stuff compared to what many AC deal with every day, but I have come home from a meeting with AD's Reception teacher feeling pretty deflated.
AD struggles to join in with group play, will stand and watch but need to be prompted to participate. She creates space around herself at the start of the day. I leave her looking quite isolated with all the children grouped together near the teacher and her choosing to stand alone at the back, despite entreaties from teacher and other kids to join them. She doesn't ever talk about her feelings, and her teacher says it is 'very difficult to read' AD. Her friendships seem to be a bit obsessive. She'll mostly only play with boys and is at her happiest and most free in physical play - running, kicking a ball, climbing. She's very eager to please learning-wise, but sometimes is also very intentionally oppositional, and very competitive. She'll follow the pack in many ways (her teacher was trying to say nicely that she's attracted to those in the class that are a bit more 'wild').
Good things too. She's got a brilliant approach to learning, is generally liked and accepted by other children, and - mostly - can follow instruction. She's very smart, though easily distracted. She is generally 'going in a good direction'.
Her school has suggested we use the PPP to access some Theraplay. I'm pleased that they are keeping a close eye on her emotional and social development. The Theraplay would be one to one for half an hour after school. What have others said to their children about what this session is? AD will be alert to being treated differently.
Sorry for the ramble. I'm posting here on the Adopters thread rather than school as as I feel rather down about this and know people will get it. It just brings home how much she's affected by her past - avoidant attachment and low self-esteem (in a nutshell what's behind the behaviours) - it's all very evident. I so wish she could be free of her huge anxieties, even just for one day, and truly relax and join in. She's doing pretty well all things considered, but I feel sad.
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Post by sooz on Mar 21, 2014 13:44:12 GMT
It's so hard to hear things sometimes, brings it all home. I certainly used to find these things quite soul destroying.
My ds was much the same (except less keen to learn and more oppositional). He has an avoidant attachment style.
I think accepting he is how he is, and not projecting my own desires for him have helped me cope. The things we want for our child as we see things may not be what they want, or are capable of achieving. It's hard to take.
It's easy for me to say, focus on the positives, and I guess we all do generally, but it's the only way. Encourage those areas they are good at.
I found the whole statementing process hard because it totally focused on the negatives. I had to remind myself what a lovely little star my ds is.
My ds has gradually become better at playing with others rather than alongside, with help and support, it's taken a few years. He's kind of finding his 'groove'. Reception was a huge learning curve for all of us.
Xxx
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Post by ceci on Mar 21, 2014 13:55:42 GMT
Hi Sivier
Some of the things you said I really can identify with - creating space around herself, happiest and most free in physical play, difficult to read….
It's so sad and we want so much more for our children, but that's all they can manage at the moment and they do what keeps them feel safe. It does change a bit as they get older, although in other ways it stays the same. Be really encouraged at any support from school. It will be vital. And keep enjoying the lovely wee girl that's also in there.
Ceci
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Post by sockthing on Mar 21, 2014 14:28:18 GMT
Big hugs to you (((((((SIVIER))))
So hard when we can see they are struggling. Sometimes it's worse when it's hidden inside, because it's harder to address. And also gives away how self reliant they try to be emotionally.
Xxx
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 16:02:54 GMT
Great responses from the others.
It's hard sivier when others like teachers start to notice what you already see, but that's good too in a way, because it means they are switched on and in tune to your DD, so it's actually a positive thing in reality, rather than you pointing it out and them saying "all kids do that".
As Sooz said, try and focus on the positives and the things she can do well and remember she's doing her best.
The other kids haven't had the kind of start in life that she's had.
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Post by corkwing on Mar 21, 2014 17:09:45 GMT
Hi, Sivier -
The thing that worries me with things like this is how much the teachers are TRYING to make a child do what they think that they should. She's a girl: she should want to play with girls - she shouldn't be hanging around with wild boys; she might not feel comfortable in a group, but we think that she SHOULD want to be part of a group, so we're trying to make her do it. Instead of saying, "This is how this kid is: how can we facilitate that and let her know that we accept her as she is?"
For example, I really don't like groups of people. 6 is about my maximum. I feel uncomfortable and overwhelmedwith more. I don't like the fact that there are different conversations going on around me and I can't hear all of them and I find it difficult to concentrate on one because of the noise of the others. I'm over 50 years old and people STILL tell me, "Come along tonight. They're a great bunch of people. You'll really love it!" And I go along and I DON'T LOVE IT!!! And I wish people would stop telling me that essentially, "You're weird! You're abnormal! There's something wrong with you because you don't like being part of a big group. You SHOULD like being part of a big group".
One of my birth daughters used to prefer to play with boys. She even joined a football team. When she was about 5 or 6 the people she wanted to invite to her birthday party were the teenage boys from church. And they came, were embarrassed at first and then had a great time. And then suddenly, in her teenage years, she stopped wearing football kits all the time and was suddenly wearing skirts and make-up. And I'm proud that we let her be who she was. And I'd still be proud of her if she was still wearing football kits.
I'm sure you do accept her as she is, too, but I'm not sure that the teachers are getting that across.
All the best,
Corkwing
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Post by sivier on Mar 21, 2014 18:45:03 GMT
Thanks everyone, really helpful and kind responses. Needed that today.
Yes - it is really good that the school is picking up on things. Their approach is very nurturing and accepting. The SENCO really gets attachment. The other teachers aren't so experienced in attachment, but will be guided by the SENCO, and are very happy to listen to me and DH and to try things.
All of you are right to say focus on the positives, it was helpful to be reminded of that. AD is doing her best, bless her heart, and it's amazing what she can do and manage.
Corkwing that's interesting about people pushing things for conformity. I think AD's teachers want to enable her to let her guard down and relax and just PLAY! But they are quite understanding about why she can't, I think. Her teacher has a little group of 3 or 4 kids who she spends special time on each week to build their confidence in self-expression, which AD is part of. AD actually loves the idea of parties and playing - she just struggles with the reality (mainly, I think, because she's less in control with lots of people around). But it's a good point about accceptance and working with rather than against a child's inclinations.
And I'm very happy with AD loving her football and cars and marbles and trains etc, not wearing pink, hating skirts and dresses - really not a problem with me (or the school, they were just making an observation). What worries me slightly is the 'anti' girl stance AD can sometimes take as I wonder if that is wrapped up in her feelings about me, or women in general, and of course in not accepting herself -all part of her low self-esteem. And actually I think the fact that even at 4 and 5, girls can be more emotionally intense in their relationships, which of course AD avoids like the plague. I do love the story of the teenage boys at your BD's party. That would be AD's idea of heaven.
Thanks again. xxx
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Post by mudlark on Mar 31, 2014 21:12:44 GMT
Hi Sivier,
This sounds very like my little Lapwing, AD 4 nearly 5 and currently being phased into reception class. Her behaviour demonstrates clearly to me her disorganised and avoidant attachment...but her teachers don't get it, they don't even see it. I have spoken at length to the teacher, the senco and the THRIVE person, but they all seem to think she is doing ok... well the only reason she is doing at all ok is because I am there! After easter I wont be.
Have you heard of THRIVE has the school? Its a schools based programme which looks to support children with attachment issues, learning difficulties and emotional problems. It does use theraplay. One of the key things for my little one and may be for yours to is that she knows there is a key adult she can go to...and that needs to be one formally acknowledged by the school, an adult that will be her safe person for the next 2 years and that should be the person to do the theraplay sessions with her.
I really sympathise, my heart goes out to little Lapwing when I see her just emotionally out of her depth and anxious and well meaning teachers saying to me...oh don't worry that's normal.....
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Post by sivier on Mar 31, 2014 22:12:41 GMT
Thanks Mudlark. I'll ask about THRIVE - I'm not sure yet whether what they are offering is part of that programme. I have a meeting after Easter to discuss it.
As much as a identifying a key adult, I think AD needs help with peer relationships, so I'm curious about what they are suggesting. Good point about continuity over the next two years.
At least the teachers have noticed things, and are trying to support her. It must be very hard when teachers don't even see it, or do, but minimise it. Is it lack of attachment training in your AD's school that's the issue do you think, or are the teachers just too busy with a big class? Or a mix of things?
It's so helpful to hear from people who get it - thank you!
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Post by moo on Apr 1, 2014 5:49:38 GMT
I'm with Corkwing on this.... Spotting difference is a great start but perhaps it would be better to accept the differences & work with that....
Sivier I think your dd's school sounds great.... They have at least spotted the detachment & appear to have grasped ( prolly with your input ) why things are tuff for ad... Great & truly amazing that they are offering the thereplay grab it with both hands....
Caution advised to you mudlark.... As you know we have just moved schools.... Your dd's sounds just like 'old'.... Swore black was blue was pink that there were no issues or irregularities at all!!!
Within 1 school day new reported their findings & observations & immediately told me all of baa's traits then & there.... Were spot on too even having some ideas on management & checked in with me if that was correct /would work!!!!! A breath of fresh air after 3 years denying they even existed!!!!!!! Truly amazing & soooo  That old were  In pretending it didn't exist !!!!! As his mum I just knew leopards never change their spots & he would be having the same issues /behaviours at school....
Good Luck All.......
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by swimchic on Apr 1, 2014 8:42:55 GMT
Just a quick question..
How long has she been home and also, how long has she been at that school?
I only ask as Pink has been home 7 months and doing full time since January. I came out of parents evening a few weeks ago, feeling very angry. Angry as there was a lot of expectation of Pink educationally and socially. I then pointed out to her Teacher that (A) she hasn't had all the educational under pinning that her peers have that had been at the same pre school for 2 years, (B) That she has heaps of moves in her life (C) That she had only started full time school in January! That's soon shut her up! ;-)
It is positive that she is going to get theraplay and also after school, so she isn't taken out of class during the day, which would highlight the issues. Also that the school wants to work with you on her issues.I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall with Pinks school!
As for wanting to play more with boys, that doesn't matter and wanting to play more physically, Pink is just the same! Think of it that she is getting to let of steam, exercise and is doing with people she likes..Does it matter if its boys or girls? If that is what makes her happy, then that is great!
Good luck with everything.
Swimchic
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Post by sivier on Apr 1, 2014 10:29:28 GMT
Thanks moo and swimchic...
Swimchic, AD has been with us for 3.5 years (came at 18 months old and is about to turn 5).
She's been at the school since nursery (it's a nursery and infant school). She did 3 mornings a week at nursery, from age 3.5 years and had no other nursery or childcare other than DH and I up to that point. We were planning to move her after nursery to a different, very 'desirable' local school for Reception, but when she was at nursery they really seemed to get her and impressed me with their approach. With the other school, they did lots of nodding when I spoke about adoption and attachment, but didn't offer any insights.
So I kept her at the school attached to the nursery. They take a strong steer from their Head (who made all the teachers do attachment training last year) and the SENCO (who is Dep Head and also an ex-foster carer). So the thinking and interest in attachment flows from the top of the school and informs their whole approach - for example, they wouldn't dream of having a traffic light system for behaviour management as it could be shaming for those who struggle.
Day to day though, it's easy for things to get missed especially by of the less experienced TAs/playground assistants so I do need to keep an eye on things, and ask questions. I think it takes more than a bit of attachment training for things to get properly embedded into classroom practice.
Mudlark - would your ADs school be receptive to a PASW going in to them to talk to them about adoptive children and school (if anyone is in PAS willing) - might that help underline some of the things you are saying?
Moo, I hear what you are saying about accepting differences, and it's something I'll bring up when we meet with the SENCO and the school's theraplay specialist (who is a Teaching Assistant in the other Reception class in AD's year).
Oh and I am quite happy about her playing with boys!!! She misses all the jealous girly stuff which is already rearing its head according to some of the other mums. But there could be some avoidant issues behind it, I think, which I'm just keeping a gentle eye on...
Really appreciate all these thoughts and insights, very helpful!
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Post by mudlark on Apr 1, 2014 20:39:29 GMT
yes, the key adult or safe base was considered essential by the therapist we are working with. She believes and I agree that peer relationships will not happen in a meaningful or positive way before she feels safe. Peers will not be able to help her when she disregulates. The key adult needs to be there for the next 2 years, the same person she can go to when anxious or over whelmed.
Like your little one Sivier, Lapwing is also bright and keen to learn but once again we have been advised that at the moment all this is not important..it doesn't matter if she is behind academically and in some ways for the avoidant child 'learning'can be a great way of avoiding relationships..it has to be about creating a safe base for her. We have Lapwings last full practice day on Thursday then after Easter hols she will be doing 3 days a week on her own....
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That old were 
In pretending it didn't exist !!!!! As his mum I just knew leopards never change their spots & he would be having the same issues /behaviours at school....