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Post by pingu on Feb 27, 2014 21:37:20 GMT
Hi folks,
Does anyone know what the law is regarding contact by birth family with 16/17 yr olds , either fostered or adopted ? For instance, one of the children we adopted has a sibling who is in foster care. Judge says sibling is not to see birth mum. Is this just the courts giving guidelines to social work, or is it a legal thing I.e. If she got in touch with the child is she in trouble with the law? And what if she contacted the child I adopted, or is it different with adopted kids, to the situation for fostered kids.
When I say contacts, I mean by any means of contact, telephone, text, letter, etc, if she managed to get the contact details such as the child's mobile phone number ( and it does happen, especially with Facebook) I know folks are saying there is no law about social media contact, but all the law around this , that I have seen, does not specify how the contact occurred. is there any difference, for instance would it be breaking the law to contact by telephone, or text, or letter that didn't go through letterbox, or writing or personal contact?
Also, is the situation different for 15 year olds, if they initiated contact but no longer want it?
Has anyone ever heard of birth parents being in trouble with the law for unagreed contact, and has any adopter ever reported birth parent(s) to the police for contacting their kid(s) and what , if any response did they get and what were they told the legal situation was?
i am not interested in what social work do or say, with this question, that seems to vary widely, I am trying to work out the legal situation, which may become relevant to us soon.
Thanks
Pingu
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 21:52:25 GMT
In answer to your question - I don't know.
I think you can take out a harbouring order which is like a restraining order where the BP's would be told that they cannot attempt any contact until your child id 16 or 18?, but that would then mean that the authorities would have to contact the BP's in order to enforce the order which may inflame the situation especially as they might not have intended doing anything until your child has reached legal age.
As your DS is 15, he can legally contact them in 3 years anyway if he so wishes. Hopefully some of our members with legal backgrounds may be able to advise you. although it is quite a specific law.
Have you asked your PAS SW, they should know?
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Post by pingu on Feb 27, 2014 23:03:07 GMT
Thanks JFK, our situation is slightly unusual, he does not want bm contact at the moment, so am seeking to clarify legal position in case of problems.
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Post by peartree on Feb 28, 2014 7:48:52 GMT
Family rights group will know for sure but my understanding is the BF cannot try & contact the child .until 18 and then it's meant to be via the adoption la etc
Nothing about the child approaching the adults
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Post by pingu on Feb 28, 2014 14:30:29 GMT
Thanks Pear Tree,
That is what keeps coming up, on the boards, yet I have never seen mention of anyone reporting bf to police for contacting adopted kids, and never heard of any arrests, etc, which is what makes me think the so called legal declarations by judges that contact mustn't happen are not really law, but just instructions or guidelines to sw dept, etc, since nothing ever seems to happen, even when the child came into care because of safety concerns. I actually think auk etch may need to lobby for such protection, where needed to protect the child and carers, and that it should be part of parental rights or adoption order, and be as legal as the protection against contact by a violent partner.
what is family rights group, is it an organisation?
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Post by pingu on Mar 1, 2014 21:11:45 GMT
I tracked down the website for family rights group. There are PDFs there about contact but they are all written to help and aid birth parents who wish contact, telling them the right way to approach things so as to achieve that end. There is very little mention of child protection, and they almost seem to be written with the assumption that the birth parent always has the child's interests at heart.
There is nothing for adoptive families at all. Nothing about what, if anything, adopted kids can do to avoid undesired contact with birth parents, despite the fact they are no longer legally related, and even for those who are at physical risk from birth family. Nothing whatever.
Family rights group is all about helping birth families who find themselves involved in the care system, which is fair enough! but nothing I can see there is relevant to what'll I was seeking info on.
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Post by lilka on Mar 2, 2014 15:41:09 GMT
I've never heard of any law against contact. If there was I assume the FRG leaflets would say so - in order to support birth families, they need to tell them if there are any legal barriers at any point etc.
If your child doesn't want contact, then to be honest, I think the only preventative measure for social networking is good internet safety etc, to make it very difficult/impossible to find him online. In the event he was contacted, then he (with your help) would have to either ignore or respond with a message declining any contact at this time and ask them not to contact him again. If this didn't work, and they persisted in contacting him, then you could report to the Police for harassment maybe? Same as any other unrelated person you were being contacted by.
When he turns 18, he has another option, which is to ask the agency which placed him for adoption (placing authority) to record either an absolute or a qualified veto for him. An absolute veto says that he doesn't want to be contacted under any circumstances, whereas a qualified veto places certain restrictions on who/why he can be contacted. So for instance, he could say "I only want to be contacted if it's about medical formation, or if I have been made a beneficiary in a birth family member's will", or " I am happy for my siblings to contact me, but not my birth parents" etc. My DD1 put a qualified veto on her file when she became an adult, because she wanted to find the one sibling she didn't have contact with, but didn't want her birth parents to contact her. This doesn't do anything about Facebook etc, but it means if a birth family member were to go through an intermediary, the veto will come up and the intermediary will refuse to make contact. If I remember rightly, for my DD1 to place the veto, she had to write to the LA, and then there was a compulsory meeting with someone, who talked about contact and the vetos with her, to make sure she understood the full implications of what she was doing, before they recorded the veto. A veto is legally binding on the intermediary. However as I said, it doesnt prevent a birth family member using the internet etc, it's only if they use an official intermediary.
Also post-18 he can register with the adoption contact register as wanting no contact, so if his birth family sign up to the register, they will be informed that he doesn't want contact
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 11:53:53 GMT
That's really useful information lilka.
I wonder of you could copy it over onto the Letterbox - "Pro's and con's of Letterbox" thread on the Discussion Board as I think it would be a useful place to have this information for others in the future.
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Post by lilka on Mar 3, 2014 19:12:09 GMT
Yes of course I will, I'll gather all the information that is relevent
I should state that only adults adopted before the 30th December 2005 can register vetos with their adoption agency. I just assumed OP's son was most likely adopted before this date, because he's already 15
However those adopted after that date can still register with the adoption contact register as wanting no contact, even though they can't use a veto
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Post by pingu on Mar 4, 2014 9:52:34 GMT
Thanks ilka.
Actually we adopted him at 10 so we are post. 2005 !
But anyway, it seems there are no laws to protect adopted children. Only the normal law concerning harassment.,
and any talk of no contact allowed is just preferences stated by child, or carers or is court recommendations by judge to agency caring for a child
If birth parents choose to ignore agencies and contact birth children anyway, regardless of age, they are not breaking any legal restriction.
If a judge says that a child is not to have contact with birth parent until 18 then that means the authorities caring for him are not to facilitate contact. It's not an actual legal restriction on the birth parents contacting the child.( since is it was, and they broke it, they would be in trouble)
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Post by lilka on Mar 4, 2014 14:40:34 GMT
That's my understanding of the situation as well, pingu Unfortunately for the children who are at risk or don't want to be contacted  Sorry about posting info that didn't apply to you |
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Post by pingu on Mar 4, 2014 17:05:57 GMT
Thanks for clarifying that lilka
No problem about the info, much was helpful to me, and the rest will have been useful to others , I am sure.
Pingu.
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Post by kstar on Mar 8, 2014 16:19:27 GMT
Another example of how carp adoption law is and how stacked the deck is in favour of birth families. It sucks :-(
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