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Post by flutterby on Feb 21, 2014 14:20:11 GMT
Our adoption order should have been granted by now. However, BM showed up in court and was given leave to appeal. In theory, it should be a case of just a delay. But somehow it does not feel like it at all.
Her life has changed in so far that she has had another child returned to her (taken away at birth to assess her and new partner). And that is what makes me worry a lot. In fact at the moment it is driving me mad. What if the judge feels that enough has changed to warrant Butterfly being returned to her?
Everyone has been telling me it is not going to happen. Trouble is they then go on to cite that judges can always see that nothing has changed bla, bla, bla. Well, in our case something has and must have changed drastically. It still would not make it right for LO to be returned to her care, because she has no attachment to BM, does not remember her and was pretty much ignored by BM for her whole life. Maybe that is down to the circumstances BM found herself in, but I do worry what the future would hold for LO. - And for us, although at the moment I try not to think about this.
Also, I read somewhere that new legislation came into force last September to direct judges to be more sympathetic to birth parents.
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Post by donatella on Feb 21, 2014 14:35:57 GMT
Parenting one child - the child of the man she's currently with - is one thing. Parenting two, one of whom isn't the child of her partner, is another thing completely. Maybe she has made changes, maybe he's a better influence. Maybe he's happy to parent his child. Would he be as happy parenting another mans child? We went through similar with one of ours and it was a stressful time - bm had made changes, all her other children were returned to her. Our son stayed with us. It's not likely to change. She has to be given this opportunity but this case is different, hard though I know it is for you
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2014 18:22:37 GMT
I agree with Donatella, I think it would be most unlikely that any judge would return Butterfly to her BM under the circumstances.
Yes she may have turned her life around and that's great, but as her partner is not Butterfly's dad, he would not have any rights over her as such.
The new baby is a different matter and maybe BM is only being allowed to keep this new baby because BF is there and helping/supporting her, who knows. I'm sure SS will be keeping a close eye on things to make sure LO is being properly cared for, but I don't think any Judge in his/her right mind would even consider returning Butterfly to her BM.
Try not to worry, impossible I know, but you have a very strong case for keeping her with you, especially as BM is likely to have another baby next year as that's what a lot of them seem to do unfortunately.
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Post by kstar on Feb 21, 2014 22:18:18 GMT
I am really anxious about this too, I was always given to understand it would just be a formality but the changes in legislation seem to suggest more rights for the BF. I have put all the paperwork in for Starlet and am waiting to hear dates - as far as I am concerned, the sooner the better so that I can start sleeping again!
I think it is disgraceful in many different respects how adopters' feelings, experience, training, love for their child and one could argue their bl**dy human rights are being shoved aside to show that everyone is prepared to give abusive and neglectful birth families, who have caused immeasurable damage to their child, a chance to turn themselves around.
It is a similar story with FB having the right to request contact at 18. Essentially what the law is saying is that adopters are merely unpaid foster carers who cease to exist legally when the child they have lived for and loved and fought for and cried over becomes an adult!
Sorry I have hijacked the thread... Rant over.
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Post by donatella on Feb 21, 2014 22:24:22 GMT
It's poo. But as I said on the other board, it's nothing to do with what's right for the child and everything to do with appeasing blxxdy difficult birth families. In my opinion!
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Post by kstar on Feb 21, 2014 22:42:56 GMT
I am considering raising it with my MP (after my AO has gone through lol). I won't give away my exact location but my MP is quite high profile and I think would be interested to hear my experiences. Last time I raised a concern with him, he actually met with Gove one to one to raise my concerns (at the time it was about whether the new speedy box ticking system would push those on the old system to the bottom of the pile in the interests of meeting targets). I got two personal letters from Gove as a result, addressing the issues.
Would it achieve anything? Probably not.
Would it make me feel better long term to know I fought for adopters' rights? Possibly?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2014 9:14:15 GMT
Go for it kstar. If us adopters don't speak out then nothing will change.
I often think SW's are afraid of BFamilies, afraid to say no to them and we are the ones who pay the price.
Once you lose your rights to your child that should be it, until the child decides for themself if they want contact or not when they are older, be that at 18, 25, 40 or never.
It should be the Adoptee's choice and their decision alone, and not because SS think "Happy 18th Birthday" - here are your BF details - time you contacted them.
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Post by sooz on Feb 22, 2014 9:16:12 GMT
Bps requested leave to appeal when we put in for our ao.
Apparently they arrived at court with no legal representation or evidence or paperwork, so the judge granted them extra time to get all this together and come back to court at a later date.
It's a scary time.
All ds's sw said was, isn't it lovely for ds when he's older you can tell him his bps fought for him. In hindsight, yeah fair enough, I can, but at the time........ !!!!
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Post by kstar on Feb 22, 2014 9:19:01 GMT
It makes me feel physically sick. My mum also has a high profile MP in a different party so we are going to sit down and plan what to say to them to see who we get a response from. If we get any sense of being listened to, perhaps others will be prepared to stand with us? If enough MPs hear from their constituents, surely someone will have to at least acknowledge how we feel.
On a little side note, shouldn't things like this be what auk focus on campaigning for? They seem to be so much more interested now in attracting new adopters instead :-(
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Post by donatella on Feb 22, 2014 10:21:52 GMT
I think that while thing about it demonstrating that bps cared is a load of bull. If they'd cared then they would have prioritised the child in the first place. Maybe I'm just getting too cynical but actually I see it more about the bf putting their needs first. Again. If they really cared then they'd be able to recognise that they'd screwed up and let go. But it's not about fighting for the child - more about bf 'rights'.
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Post by sooz on Feb 22, 2014 12:03:04 GMT
I do agree with you Don.
Not having met the bps though, I can only go on what I've been told and have the impression the bps are or were just not capable of putting a child's needs first. (Doesn't stop me getting all fired up when I think of bm drinking though!!! I guess if she hadn't got the message by the 9th child she never was).
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Post by kstar on Feb 22, 2014 13:53:01 GMT
I have a friend (one of starlet's new school friend's mum) who is a family law specialist. She is going to do some research for us and let me know the EXACT legal position. The last thing I want is for any of us to be relying on social services' opinion - at the end of the day, they want us to think it will be plain sailing, they have too much invested in us to have adopters having last minute wobbles! I also want the legal advice before I start to shake things up with local politicians :-)
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Post by gilreth on Feb 22, 2014 14:30:06 GMT
I am worried about this having just put Sqk's paperwork in but also know that BPs seem to have accepted what is happening (from the meeting we had). Nothing has changed so they should have no grounds to appeal anyway. Interested in what you can find out kstar
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2014 14:33:04 GMT
Oh do let us know what your legal friend says kstar, would be of huge benefit to a lot of members.
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Post by kstar on Feb 22, 2014 14:44:11 GMT
I will :-) it takes a lot to get me this wound up but once I do I want action haha. I have now posted on fb to ask how many of my friends and family would be prepared to support me by writing to their MP if I produce some sample wording for a letter. So far I have about 15 and I know there will be more. Adopters go through too much at every stage to be constantly shunted to the bottom of the pile and we need someone somewhere to start listening.
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Post by flutterby on Feb 22, 2014 15:34:39 GMT
Thanks for all the support and encouragement. I totally agree, once it has got to the stage where we are at, there should be no comeback for BFs. They had enough chances to turn things around and it is just so stressful. In a way, it is a bizarre situation now. BM has lost a child and wants her back. We are stressed out for fear of having our child removed - which is what happened to BM. So in a way we are now in the same boat, just for very, very different reasons. None of us should have to fight for our right to keep our children, as if we had been the ones to abuse them. Just can't get my head around this one.
So, Kstar, if you can get some letter together, I will join the fight. Just haven't got the energy to put one together myself at the moment. xx
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Post by kstar on Feb 22, 2014 18:57:26 GMT
It could take me a couple of months, not sure I will have the nerve to do it until my AO is sorted! However, even if it goes quiet I will be beavering away in the background collecting advice and guidance.
Flutterby please keep us updated when you feel strong enough - I'm sure all of us on here are shocked and horrified on your behalf xx
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Post by flutterby on Feb 22, 2014 19:18:16 GMT
Thanks, KStar, keep me posted on any progress you may make xx
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Post by flutterby on Mar 5, 2014 12:15:44 GMT
Well ,just to keep you all in the loop, the next date came and went and the judge decided he was unable to come to a decision based on the information available to him at the time. So he has requested more information and it will all go back for hearing no. 3 in a few weeks time. Sigh.
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Post by chotimonkey on Mar 5, 2014 13:05:02 GMT
Hi flutterby
We had three hearings for squirrel and howler too...
Frustrating, but we did get there in the end and you will too... Stay strong it's an exercise on showing the courts have been fair rather than a real risk
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Post by moo on Mar 6, 2014 7:11:46 GMT
Hugs flutterby {{{}}}
Really really tuff & worrying for you all.... Hang in as choti says it will be ok.... Judge will think as donatella diff partner so step child will be a huge ask..... Not easy to do I know.... They so won't want to disrupt your l/o again....
Keep posting.... More hugs on there way....
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by larsti on Mar 6, 2014 18:07:08 GMT
Presumably your LO has never met BM's new partner., I suppose that goes without saying. So BM and total stranger. Snowball's chance in Hell comes to mind.
Also as our solicitor said to us, BM's can say they have changed since child was removed but that's all very well but they do not have the responsibility of the child. Okay in your case a child is involved, but an older half sibling to the baby would make things very different.
I thought of starting a campaign myself / writing a few letters but once it had all gone through I just concentrated on being Dash's Mum...a full time job 
If your LO is returned to BM flutterby, after eating my hat, I will join a campaign 
Hugs to flutterby and Kstar
Larsti x |
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Post by flutterby on Mar 6, 2014 22:00:43 GMT
Thanks, Moo (and everyone else, of course), really appreciate the support.
Really like your reasoned comments, Larsti. I am sure you are right and it has made me feel a bit better thinking along those lines. x
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Post by flutterby on Apr 2, 2014 20:10:46 GMT
So, another court date and no decision. There won't be one any time soon, I am afraid, the judge is now saying he had not had enough time and needs a few more weeks to come to a decision - and then BM can appeal against this decision again. God knows what is going to happen if he decides in her favour.
None of us signed up for this. Crazy politicians trying to "recruit" lots more adopters, putting more pressure on social services to meet targets and get children adopted - and then pulling the carpet away under everyone's feet and give BFs more rights to challenge. What must happen to these poor kids for BFs to lose their rights? Never mind adoptive parents, who have now been reduced to unpaid foster carers, having to therapeutically parent, be super resilient, and being threatened with having their children removed from their care through no fault of their own. Why should anyone still want to adopt under these circumstances? I certainly would have thought long and hard about it if this law had already been in place when we started out.
And oh, did I mention the waste of resources which would better be spent at protecting kids? All tied up in legal struggles up and down the country now. I know we are not the only ones. Our LA is not big and there are a dozen or so similar cases to ours in the courts now. Madness.
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Post by justbserene11 on Apr 2, 2014 21:43:49 GMT
I am sorry that this has not been finalised sending hugs (((((flutterby))))))))
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Post by knight on Apr 2, 2014 22:05:29 GMT
Flutterby: I'm so sorry you're going through this, I totally agree with you. If the court has seen fit to make a final Care Order, followed by a Placement Order: that should be it but until they change the law (if they ever do) to specifically address that point, BPs will be in the position of continuing to fight. As others have said in other threads over time: if they put this much effort into actually providing at least even a basic level of care for their kids and meeting their needs, they wouldn't be in this position. I really feel for you and hope that they're simply being given a chance to have their voices heard but that the applications don't have any real merit (shame to put you through that though). I hope there aren't further adjournments and the final order is made. x
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Post by moo on Apr 3, 2014 3:53:06 GMT
Aww flutterby my heart goes out to you xxx
You are spot on in all you say.....
It's about time judge saw sense.....
Hang in it's too unthinkable.... Your l/o are finally totally safe & loved can't imagine anyone ( judge or otherwise) wanting to overturn all of that..... Xx
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by twoplustwo on Apr 3, 2014 8:17:44 GMT
I think that while thing about it demonstrating that bps cared is a load of bull. If they'd cared then they would have prioritised the child in the first place. Maybe I'm just getting too cynical but actually I see it more about the bf putting their needs first. Again. If they really cared then they'd be able to recognise that they'd screwed up and let go. But it's not about fighting for the child - more about bf 'rights'. Too true Donatella. My Stig's BM contested the adoption and went to her GP for support. He told her, in no uncertain terms, that she wouldn't be able to manage Stig and that it was best for HIM to stay with me. His straight talking made BM really think about Stig and she withdrew her objection to the adoption the same day. Shame more professionals aren't as honest. Really feel for you flutterby. Hope things get sorted soon - you must be in bits  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 9:26:23 GMT
Oh Flutterby so sorry to read this latest madness.
When are the powers that be going to help us adopters?
We need an Advocate or an Adoption Minister to speak out for us, it's a joke.
This is where Auk spokesperson should be in there speaking out for the rights of the adopted child and the rights of the Adopters, but no lets all help and support the BP's who couldn't look after or keep the children safe in the first place.
How can that be right?
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Post by flutterby on Apr 4, 2014 18:46:43 GMT
Thanks for all your lovely words of encouragement. I must admit I just felt like cowering under a blanket for the time being, thinking for the first time that we had made a grave mistake. If judgement were to go against us, where would that leave us as a family, never mind us adults, but also my birth daughter for whom this little sister has been a dream come true. They are so lovely together and have such a great relationship - presumably because of the age gap.
Still, we have now had another meeting with our social worker and various of her colleagues who are up in arms about this. They are completely behind us not just because it is their job, they are passionately behind us and this makes a huge difference.
I think this new law needs lobbying against, 38 degrees comes to mind. If enough of us protest - and the whole of the social work profession too, maybe someone will listen. This law is effectively killing off adoption. I have heard plenty of other horror stories from my social worker, similar and worse to ours which are a direct result of this new law.
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