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Post by serrakunda on Feb 15, 2014 21:43:07 GMT
Simba is becoming increasingly difficult about walking under bridges. We live in between two bridges, it started off him refusing to walk under bridge A , having total meltdowns, me having to drag him home. Three days later he quite happily walked under the same bridge while we were out with his club on a local history walk, not a peep, two days later another meltdown at bridge A. We are now starting to have issues with bridge B. We cannot get home from school without walking under bridge B. We can't get to the railway station without walking under one of the bridges. Tomorrow I want to take him to a science museum he really loves, but he doesnt want to go because to get there we have to walk under a bridge. I know he still finds it difficult that we dont have a car, but putting that aside, even I did have a car, I wouldn't use it to go the station or go to school or the majority of other journeys where we have to go near the bridges, I've tried to accommodate him by avoiding bridge A which tends to be the shortest way and use B which is longer. It's not like I'm making him walk miles, we're talking 10-15 minute walks, it's 25 minutes to the swimming pool, no bridges involved, and he's fine with that, we also do 5k fun runs. He can walk 15 minutes. He wants to go in taxis which just isn't going to happen and which makes me feel it's about control.
We we did have a chat about it tonight and he said he doesn't like the sound of the train, yet he's quite happy at railway stations with trains whiz zing past, or to stand on the road bridge and watch the trains, I've promised him we'll check and make sure their isn't a train coming before we walk under them. But I can't have a battle every time we go out because of flipping bridges
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Post by sockthing on Feb 16, 2014 7:32:24 GMT
Funnily enough I was thinking about Simba and the bridges the other day - you mentioned this a while back didn't you?
I can relate to this as it's the sort of thing that happens to me with Kipoer, though he is a lot younger of course. But he's also got a tentative ASD diagnosis. And the first thing that comes to mind is sensory issues. I realise it might not be sensory issues, but I think it's worth bearing in mind.
The fact he doesn't mind watching the trains at the station may be that the sound is different...under a bridge there are all sorts of rumbles and echoes....maybe it's the vibration. I know with kipper that there seems to be some frequencies/pitch of noise that he doesn't like, I.e it's not always about volume. Maybe it's a unique combination of the noise, the feel of it shaking(?) and the lower light levels making him feel more vulnerable.
As for going under it with his club, I do find kippers sensory issues seem to genuinely fluctuate depending on how relaxed he is. Perhaps Simba was sufficiently happy and distracted and excited on that occasion.
Has he got ear defenders? I bought some for kipper before Christmas in advance of family parties , church, and a wedding. He loves them. He'll often put them on in advance of an event , well before there is any noise issue. And then once he has acclimatised and got the measure of everything going on he'll take them off, sometimes only 10 minutes into proceedings. Seems to be a psychological thing knowing he's got the safety net if the defenders.
Of course Simba could just be angling for a fun ride in a taxi!
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Post by moo on Feb 16, 2014 7:35:04 GMT
Tricky one.....
Seeing as he loves the museum I am a bit surprised he is still refusing bridge A.... Does he expect ( or believe ) you can get there a different way & avoid the bridges???
Is a tad odd.... Coz of the stuff he wants to do but still is struggling could there be an underlying issue??  Tuff one sorry to be of little help.....
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by sooz on Feb 16, 2014 9:11:24 GMT
I'm with Sockthing. Sounds like a sensory issue to me. Perhaps at one point he was startled by a train going overhead, and relives this each time he's due to go under the bridge, with bridge a being where it happened so bridge b is scary still but not as bad as A? My ds is fine with some loud noises but not others, pitch counts for a lot.
I'd go with it and work together to find a way he will be happy. My ds has ear defenders, but I've found iPod with headphones better in some situations.
Due to where you live and being unable to avoid the bridges then trying to 'desensitise' him is very important. I quite often try and 'crack' an issue snooz has by facing it head on, with loads of encouragement, understanding and outright bribery. I tell him how brave he is trying, even though he finds it really hard and may never be comfortable with certain situations, at least he's given it a go.
My ds has problems in the car, which i thought were visual as he kept telling me to slow down. I think actually is motion as I've noticed it's going around bends and roundabouts etc that he wants me to slow. However, if were following someone in another car to go somewhere he's telling me to go faster so we can catch up, so he's distracted. He says I'm making his head go funny.
I never liked walking under railway bridges as a kid, or over them, the noise and vibration was horrid, yet I was fine on a platform. My heart would pound and I would avoid them if I could, but, I was able to push myself if I had to do it. Never batted an eyelid if I went over or under them in a car.
I still don't like level crossings, but that's not sensory lol.
X
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Post by milly on Feb 16, 2014 10:11:38 GMT
You have had good advice already, and I can't add to the ideas re sensory issues. But I would suggest two possible approaches. 1. Try to persuade him by whatever means it takes as others have said. 2. For something optional like the museum make a big thing about how nice it would be to go but of course you can't because he can't go under the bridge - and then seem to have decided against it - in short, call his bluff.
Both approaches work with my dd but her fears are social ones - too many people or nobody will talk to me / will laugh at me type of thing. (She is 99% fine with all situations once she gets there, but I frequently have to do a lot of cajoling).
The bluff thing worked recently when I wasn't even trying to call her bluff. There was a brownies disco and I didn't even try to persuade her to go as she had hated the school disco previously and this would have been at a strange location with lots of people she didn't know (other brownie groups). But that day at school she talked to other girls who were going and decided she would go - and loved it. So I think giving the child the choice can be productive - they are then choosing to overcome their fears, rather than the parent imposing that on them. Worth a try?
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Post by pluto on Feb 16, 2014 10:18:40 GMT
Partly controle partly ASD obsessiveness. Do not be too empathetic and do not avoid going under bridge A or B whenever you want. In fact if he refuses this means it needs to be practised more so this means now we go 10 times under the bridge. If you let him get away with those behaviours it will become a huge problem as there will likely be more and more thing he refuses.
When my oldest moved in he was 'scared' of anything (same refused to go near, the fc could not bring him anywhere), exposure, exposure, exposure solved this not avoiding.
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Post by serrakunda on Feb 16, 2014 10:30:46 GMT
I've been through the bribery, calling his bluff, we check there is no train coming before we walk under it, I've promised him nothing will happen, mummy will always look after him , told him he's brave when we get to the other side. etc etc. he generally likes a lot of noise, loves the fair, rollercoasters, cant get much noisier than that. I suppose what's puzzling is that one bridge is ok , the others aren't, he is also fine with the bridges in Liverpool where we go regularly, it surprising how many bridges there are out there.
Anyway we are about to go, I have found a pair of magic ear plugs, let's see if they work
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Post by wibbley on Feb 16, 2014 10:51:37 GMT
It's also gloomy under bridges - this would add to it for my son (ASD), who is not keen but will go. He also is scared if trains going through tunnels & bridges.
We have had big issues for years over handryers. Full on panic attacks & soiling & wetting himself rather than use a public loo. There has been no way to force the issue. Difference being that we bought a radar key & use the disabled toilets. However, lately we have started a game - I hold the toilet door open & he or I will set the handryers off & run! Sometimes he discovers to his delight that some aren't that noisy, these he has memorised & is now quite obsessed about using them.
So, can you make bridges into a game? A race through, ready, steady, go....ruuuuun! Sweet at the other side for being so fab/ the winner? It's difficult as I know ASD kids can get really stuck on these things.
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Post by sooz on Feb 16, 2014 11:31:59 GMT
Hiya
Good luck, hope it goes ok.
Just one thing, all the reassurance may make it worse, ie, mummy will keep you safe, kind of implies there is something to be kept safe from, if you see what I mean.
To agree that, yes, you find it scary but that mummy isn't scared, been under that bridge for years, look how many years that bridge has been built and it's still there, how many trains do you think have been over that bridge over the years etc.....
This method helps with snooz, as does the calling his bluff kind of thing.
My ds had a fear of monsters and ghosts for example, very common, but instead of telling him they didn't exist I just said "well it's ok as they are always friendly".
And I'm going to try the hand dryer thing!! That would appeal to ds and hopefully save me taking him in the disabled loos! Fab idea xx
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Post by milly on Feb 16, 2014 11:40:37 GMT
Maybe the one bridge reminds him of a specific incident that happened long ago. Maybe he can't even recall it, but something about the bridge triggers the fear. I suppose in that case you need to engineer positive experiences near that bridge rather than avoid it. Eg have a favourite snack as he goes near it, then up to it, then eventually through it. Do this gradually over time, not all in one go. Explain exactly what you will do eg today we will just stand far away from it and look at it for 2 mins, or whatever small steps are appropriate. That might desensitize him over time. ( could use snack or whatever as a reward during or after, or maybe just put off a desired activity until the bridge part is over)
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Post by moo on Feb 16, 2014 13:06:38 GMT
Ear plugs good thinking...
Please let us know how it goes.....
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 14:20:14 GMT
I'm with Sooz on this.
I can remember not liking going under bridges when I was little and I used to run all the way to the other side to get through as fast as possible.
Perhaps you could turn it into a game of who can get to the other side the first, as I know you and Simba like running. Making it an enjoyable game might help. I agree with Pluto, you can't necessarily avoid it as you will have to go under the bridge sometimes, but maybe turning it into a competition/game might help with the winner getting a sweet or something nice.
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Post by serrakunda on Feb 16, 2014 16:29:39 GMT
Not been very theraputic  |
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Post by sooz on Feb 16, 2014 16:44:49 GMT
Don't sweat it serrakunda!
If at first we don't succeed.......
Xxxxx
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Post by serrakunda on Feb 16, 2014 23:36:39 GMT
So, magic ear plugs worked and we got to the station without incident, even under the third bridge C which I'd forgotten about because there is never any issue about that one, got taxi at other end as we were later than I'd wanted to be so avoiding bridge. Had a good hour, then he starts fretting about the bridge on the way home, I promise we'll find another way back to the station, he won't let it go, we sit on a bench for 20 minutes cuddling and talking about it, he says it hurts his ears, I ask if he wants to go home, he says no but then won't play with anything, keeps sitting down on the floor, after 45 minutes I lose my patience and yell at him, tell he has spoilt the day by being silly about stupid bridges and we are going home. We take our life in our hands to cross three major busy roads to get back to the station to avoid the bridge.
On the way home he walks under bridge B without a peep.
We have kissed and made up, I said sorry for yelling, he said what a wonderful mummy I am, we had a long talk about all our happy adventures, all the brave things he's done, if he can stroke a lion he can walk under a bridge.
I don't believe he's had a nasty experience under a bridge, I haven't got time to desensitise him by looking at it for two minutes every day, if we cannot use that road we literally cannot go anywhere. We have been to that museum every holiday since he came to me, it's only the last two or three times he had a problem with that bridge.
I just wanted a nice day out, he is in holiday club for two days, then staying at Nannys until Saturday so this was our day together this half term. I've said we'll go the movies tomorrow to make up for today, but to get to the cinema we have to go under the bridge
I'm exhausted, good thing it's half term and I'm not working, I'd be fit for nothing
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 8:30:06 GMT
Hugs Serrakunda. Don't worry about losing it, I would have too.
It does sound like a control thing if he was happy to go under with the scouts. Don't really know what to suggest apart from running under as fast as you can. Hope it is a passing thing. Have you tried getting someone else to walk him under just to see if he does the same thing with them?
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Post by pluto on Feb 17, 2014 17:54:12 GMT
The natural concequence from messing by the bridge would be that you turn around tomorrow and go back home, no cinema. |
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Feb 18, 2014 11:43:13 GMT
Sounds like can't do, rather than won't do to me.
We've had lots of phobic stuff here - some of it has been worth making a plan and putting in lots of effort (ED xray) which was successful. YD was phobic about spiders and worse with webs. I didn't get to grips with a step by step plan and it wasn't that bad to wipe her bike down before she rode it, go through gates, narrow pathways etc first, regularly dust bedroom etc. She has got better over time.
Thinking about bridges, does Simba know what would help? Presumably he knows that the bridges can't be avoided? I guess he was ok with scouts because there were more people so he was distracted and maybe felt more secure in a big group?
If it were me, I think i would take him to the GP to check that there is nothing wrong with his ears and that there is nothing medical wrong. I would say to the gp that I think they're fine and I think the bridge thing is anxiety/sensory based but I just want to rule out any other issues. This is very reassuring for both my girls.
I would also talk about 2 courses of actions - flooding vs desensitisation, and use examples of both - I'd ham it up a bit - I could pop you in a shopping trolley and push you really fast, and talk about the people who go to London Zoo and hold tarantulas by the end of the day. Then show him a desensitisation plan of maybe a different issue then you and he could make a plan - I know it takes time that you don't have, but in the long run, it might save you a load of time and aggro.
My girls also seem to benefit from me telling them about other people who have had similar fears and what has helped them. My ED had 'Be Brave' pills - placebo or not, it helped her. You could use rescue remedy in the same way.
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Post by moo on Feb 18, 2014 11:53:37 GMT
Hugs serrakunda.... Seems to me you have been sooo therapeutic & patient.... Do not beat yourself up.... 
Still think ear plugs a really cool idea... 
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by serrakunda on Feb 18, 2014 13:29:43 GMT
We had quite extensive tests on his ears not long after he came as he was having hysterical reactions to lorries and motorbikes, literally cowering on the floor with hands over ears. It was all clear so nothing medically wrong. I've suspected sensory issues for a while and am having a consultation with GP next week re previous medical records. We saw the GP today about something else and found out that he has a son with autism and MLD so hopefully he will have a better understanding, school aren't listening aren't the moment, I've Ben raising concerns about sensory issues for several months now. Although it's a special school because Simba is one of the most able, doesn't have the behavioral issues some of them have, loves learning and can learn, I think he's slipping under the radar.
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Post by sockthing on Feb 18, 2014 14:31:53 GMT
Sorry to harp on about the ear defenders, but if you suspect sensory issues I seriously recommend them. Kipper gets upset at lorries going past etc too.
I've tried on his ear defenders and they are immensely more effective than ear plugs, cutting out much more noise, and also give a feeling of security in that they cover the whole outer ear. They were pretty comfy. They also give me leverage to negotiate - eg " I know the noise under the bridge upsets you, but you have a choice : you can wear your ear defenders when we walk under the bridge so you can go to your club, or, we can go back home so you don't have to go under the bridge. ".
Could you reinforce with a surprise reward when he gets to the other side eg sweets or Lego mini figures etc? Yes I know we're not supposed to use rewards but I do find kipper needs tangible touchable incentives sometimes rather than just words.
Frustrating for you about school, you'd think they'd be more aware about sensory stuff. Like you say perhaps they are used to extremes.
Good luck. I'll shut up about ear defenders now!! : )
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Post by donatella on Feb 18, 2014 16:07:36 GMT
A hearing test wouldn't pick up any sensory issues. My son has perfect hearing but he's also sensitive to certain noises. Simba has an asd diagnosis doesn't he so the sensory stuff will go with that. I have one who freaks at having her hair dried. It's a nightmare. An ot who can also do a sensory assessment would be your best bet, but not all nhs ots do that.
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Post by donatella on Feb 18, 2014 16:11:47 GMT
I know I'm probably teaching you to suck eggs, but there's lots of useful information on the NAS website. www.autism.org.uk/sensoryWhen my two were assessed by OT we had to complete a very lengthy firm. I'll see if I can find one. Might clarify things. |
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Post by sockthing on Feb 18, 2014 17:31:24 GMT
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Post by donatella on Feb 18, 2014 18:56:27 GMT
Yes same sort of questions. I found it really forced me to think about the things that both of mine really did struggle with. Of course even similar ones are approached from a completely different angle! Just to make life even more exciting!
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Post by wibbley on Feb 18, 2014 23:36:19 GMT
My son has severe hyperacusis. Way more of an issue than a dislike of noise, it causes ear pain too. Part of Hyperacusis is a tendency to develop phonophobia - which I believe my son has with handdryers & babies crying. He sees an Audio Vestibular Cons. Whilst his (fab) OT was very aware of his issues with noise, I don't think even she got that it was more than sensory. My understanding is that cBT is the only real option out there for hyperacusis. It's worth looking up as there is a sliding scale of severity. www.hyperacusis.net/ |
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Feb 20, 2014 7:32:12 GMT
My thoughts re a hearing test were that they would rule out medical issues (seems like you've done that), but also my girls find it reassuring to go to the GP. They think I'm taking something seriously if I say 'let's just check etc'.
I agree that it is sensory, - my yd wore nothing on the top half except inside out sports t-shirts for approx 3 yrs, like Don's dd, never would have her hair blow dried, - if it got brushed twice a week we were doing well. All of that is liveable with - not being able to leave the house becuase you need to go uner a bridge is at a different level!
I'd offer you some ear defenders that we don't use anymore - but they're very pink, Simba would probably run a mile!!
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Tuff one sorry to be of little help.....
