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Post by corkwing on Jan 12, 2016 9:44:14 GMT
Fairy Basslet's been away on a trip. Came into our room yesterday asking, "Can I print some photos out?"
We've had this conversation many times before. The next question is always, "How many?" I've told her numerous times that I find it annoying when I have to fish for all of the relevant information in order to make a decision. It often happens with homework. "Can I print something out?" I always have to ask, "What do you want to print out? What is it for? Etc."
So she has a quick look. "About 7."
I ask her to be precise and she stomps off. Comes back a while later, not even coming into our room but trying to talk through the door. Turns out it's 15.
Next question is, "What size are they? How many sheets of paper?"
"About 5".
"OK, I'll come and have a look in a minute."
At this point she storms off. "Oh, don't bother then. I'll just delete it [the document with the photos in]". She puts the laptop away then flounces into her room, slamming the door.
And I feel fine about it! I wouldn't be happy about her printing 15 pages of A4, full-colour photos, so I feel completely justified to ask for details. Bit sad that she's got her knickers in a knot about it and missed out on what she actually wanted to do, but I suspect she blames me. Par for the course! And I just wish that she'd, just for once, give me some more details when she wants to print something. It's like extracting blood from a stone and I don't see why I should have to put in the effort when it's her that wants to do it.
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Post by topcat on Jan 12, 2016 11:26:20 GMT
Isn't it all part of the subtle manipulation of the parent and a laziness on the child's part - like mumbling so the parent can't hear properly, making out they didn't hear what the parent just said, always asking parent to repeat themselves or being deliberately obtuse. I've read this can be quite marked in children with attachment difficulties but I suspect it's par for the course with lots of teenagers - it's all designed to prove to themselves that grown-ups really are useless and stupid! Congrats on getting one over for the grown-ups!
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Post by mudlark on Jan 12, 2016 13:51:50 GMT
......It seems to be par for the course for certain 6 year olds too...!
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Post by esty on Jan 12, 2016 15:19:54 GMT
Oh so that's why he does it. Drives me mad. I'm only going to repeat myself twice from now on after reading this. I'd thought it was controlling but just thought I was being particularly ratty. It's these sorts of things that are really hard to live with day to day. They're really subtle so no one else would notice and would question why you're getting frustrated and short.
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Post by pluto on Jan 12, 2016 16:30:36 GMT
She does not even has a printer in her bedroom, poor girl So unfair, I am sure she never gets or is allowed anything, lol So typical, I have this at home all the time.
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Post by topcat on Jan 12, 2016 20:09:20 GMT
in fact - the more I think about it, the more I'm sure our two are on a mission to prove that grown-ups (parents in particular) don't have a clue...did I mention the questions there are simply no answers to?
Why have you bought green apples? Why are there 3 lanes on this motorway?
Not to mention how to respond to the unwavering 'facts' told by the child surely designed to test adult's response and woe betide the non-empathic parent who dares suggest the child doesn't know what she's talking about...
Sorry Corkwing - seem to have hit my own nerve!
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Post by corkwing on Jan 13, 2016 9:11:40 GMT
Very interesting replies! You've come up with a number of other things that my adopted kids do that I hadn't particularly attached any significance to and which my birth kids didn't do - like the "why are there 3 lanes on this motorway" question.
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Post by mooster on Jan 13, 2016 17:11:55 GMT
It is interesting all this stuff.
Our AD had/has an all or nothing approach to things. We had many occasions when a compromise solution was chucked out in favour of nothing rather than receiving a bit of what was asked for. Any discussion which might have resulted in what she wanted was met with huffs and sweeps out of rooms and also doors slamming - her door was at one point removed to save it from further damage.
One therapist tried - very unsuccessfully - to instil some understanding of negotiating in order to get what you want - this resulted in us being told her compromise up front before any discussion "I am leaving the party two hours early, that's my compromise so can you pick me up at 1am otherwise it would be 3am and I know you wont allow that!". No information on where the party was, when, who would be there etc.
We are still honeymooning here, in terms of communication, since AD moved back in but I expect old traits will resurface - although my batteries are recharged I am not sure I have solutions to handling these funny conversations.
Mooster x
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Post by esty on Jan 13, 2016 19:47:24 GMT
I could ask a question that is in his favour eg, there is some chocolate on the mantelpiece would you Like some? He would ignore me completely. Then I would ask again and he would say what? And the third I would shout the question and he'd go oh I didn't hear you when I know full well he had. In the van ( he sits in the back after grabbing the steering wheel at speed) I will ask him something about his day and he will ignore me completely. Then as soon as I switch the radio on or talk to Big Fish he will then make inane conversation about trainers or something. He appears unable to carry out any request after first asking even if in his favour. All drive me potty. I get to where I don't speak to him sometimes as I can't bare the game playing. Or I'll try once and if he doesn't reply I'll happily sail off into my own mind world!
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Post by pingu on Jan 14, 2016 0:04:00 GMT
We also have had the three lanes on the motorway question , from. Ds2 !!! Ds1 on other hand never took an interest in such things unless it directly affected him. I sometimes wonder if questions like this are part of the " filling in the gaps stuff" as ( in our case anyway) its the sort of question a younger child might ask. I actually find it more normal than ds1 's lack of questions, as it shows an interest in life around him,and a natural curiosity about why things are the way they are. Re the lack of response to the chocolate sort of situation. Occassionally I will just leave it, not bother telling him again, if I am sure he not only heard physically but that it also registered in his brain and that he was deliberately ignoring me - sometimes I think his mind just wanders at times ( I recognise this from myself, especially if I am tired or stressed) I might say I will take the chocolatw instead ( surprising how quickly that brings a response when I move towards It)I Or if its something important to have a response to then I will challenge ds2 " dont ignore me, answer me now please. If you continue ignoring I will assume your choice is x and act on that assumption,,,,," This works for ds2 usuallly as sometimes he just seems to have switched off for a second. Sometimes its a control thing so doing this takes back the control to me.He needs to feel that I am in charge or he gets disregulated. Not recommending this is the right approach for every parent, depends on your kids and what works for you and them.Its just what works here.
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Post by toomuchlaundry on Jan 14, 2016 9:17:15 GMT
We moved house recently. Little Man's bedroom door doesn't latch properly, so he can't slam it. Always tries, much huffing and puffing as he's trying repeatedly to slam a door that won't slam, and me trying not to laugh!
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Post by topcat on Jan 14, 2016 12:09:16 GMT
Pingu - definitely agree with the filling the gaps thing, DD's questions are a mixture of the genuinely curious age 4 type "Why?"s, finding a way of getting/keeping my attention and challenging my authority. I think she's had such positive responses to her 'curiosity' that it's a standard technique with adults now - she even peppers her conversation with "and do you know what?" and "do you know why?" - it's quite clever - or maybe it's too many Mr Men books. and the deliberate misunderstandings Toko (hope you are feeling better soon) - yup, another cunning way to get you to repeat yourself endlessly or do it for them... Anyway, I have just started holding back on my reaction/explanation to DD and getting her to suggest her own answers...or, as ties in with Corkwing's original post, try to get her to re-frame the question to what it is she really wants to know. Mummy, I really want to know when the church is closed. Huh? Oh right, we just drove past the church and it was open and it is late and I know they are hiring it out to performers so maybe you are actually wondering why it is open? Having established that I hurt my thumb, now bandaged, in anger (slamming table) during verbal antics with DS and admitting to DD that it should teach me a lesson she asks..." When did you put the bandage on?" ...I'm confused as to how this information is useful to her and I tell her so. Perhaps it is this missing guidance on use of question words in early development that leads to the misunderstanding? I don't know. Here's another regular exchange: Mummy, when's tea? 6 o'clock ...or...when Daddy gets home (it's the same time every night) How many minutes? about an hour (grrr - sometimes remind them they could ask "how long until tea" instead) So, 30 minutes, no, 40 minutes (they can both tell the time and know how many minutes there are in an hour) - what time is it now? You can look at the clock... Similar variations for "when are we there?" and they will be genuinely frustrated with my answer of a point in time when they want to know a length of time. and how many times can they ask "What's for tea?"?? I know on the face of it this is all standard child stuff but it's a relief to grumble about it and not have friends just chuckle at how clever and curious and communicative my kids are.
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