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Post by imp on Nov 26, 2013 9:58:00 GMT
As there are many more children waiting for adoption than there are adopters, why do you think that some adopters are waiting months/years before they are matched?
I am not talking historically, but currently.
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Post by serrakunda on Nov 26, 2013 11:38:26 GMT
possibly people are being too narrow in the children they will consider, Completely take the point about support packages though.
My main support is my adoption allowance which means I dont have to work full time, I still work more hours than I would like but as Simba is at school, its enough to enable me to not have to use additional child care and for me to be at Simba's beck and call when he needs me.
I was thinking about another post and older children as well though. The older ones are deemed harder to place, butlook at the battles people have when their kids get to school to get statements or to get diagnosis or to get DLA, adoption allowances etc. Simba was nearly 8 when he came to me, he came with statement, diagnosis and MLD recognised, need for special school established, DLA and adoption allowance in place. I havent had to fight for any of that which, particularly as a singly, I am immensly grateful for and its made my life a lot easier.
So Simba was considered hard to place because of age, ethnicity, MLD and autism and because he is a boy. But because of all the above he is probably a lot easier than many of those easy to place babies whose problems dont come to light until much later, and no one can blame my bad parenting.
If prospective adopters where aware of all these sorts of factors then they may view things a bit differently
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Post by damson on Nov 26, 2013 13:58:31 GMT
I remember reading research somewhere that said where social workers had stretched families to take children with needs greater than what was originally agreed, the placement was much more likely to break down. When we were going through the adoption process, there was a general rule of thumb that 7 was the oldest most people would consider. Certainly the stats on children adopted suggest that very few children aged 8+ are placed for adoption. (Just lots of their parents congregate here  I remember an experienced social worker telling me that boys aged 7+ were already very loyal to their mothers, which made it harder. Hmm. Perhaps a more realistic approach to placing older children would include a more energetic support package? How about advocates who will fight for SEN and broker with CAMHs? Or say, summertime holiday respite? Social Services would still save money compared to having the child in care. |
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Post by chotimonkey on Nov 26, 2013 14:01:56 GMT
I think there is all sorts going on...
Some is the fragmented way each la va is like it's own little autonomy and there isn't enough communication between agencies about to make good out of borough links, the cost out out of borough means las prefer to use in house, even if that means waiting longer as they seek, approve and match. Different ways things are done mean certain las don't work well with others. Our approving la was so poor (but still just scarped through ofsted) that our matching la ended up doing everything and paying approving borough huge amounts of money for essentially nothing... They missed deadlines, lost paperwork, didn't write reports, or submitted incomplete sub standard work and our matching la can't officially refuse to work with them, but off the record won't consider any adopters approved by that borough however great they seem on paper.
Also there's such a big funding crisis in sw that a lot of sw know they can't afford the care packages a child would need, but staying as lac with v experienced FC that know and are committed to child is the cheaper/ safer option.
Also I think it's not a numbers game, you could have a hundred sets of prospective adopters and none of them could be suitable for one particular child and I think it's better to wait and match well then get it wrong and disrupt ...
A friend of mine works as an ex head who monitors the progress and needs of lac and previously lac in the borough she says when they completely "lose" a child to the point if no return it's after a disruption so I think it's ok to hold back on matching of it prevents a disruption further down the line
( not judging any parent who has had a disruption think it happens when the match and support aren't right together and if the la can't afford to support that child with that parent, def think it's better to wait or look at alternative parenting experiences for the child)
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Post by lilka on Nov 26, 2013 14:20:14 GMT
Because (IMHO)
- issues with area, 'in house' matching being very preferred. You could be approved in an area with only 2 children waiting in your age/gender/number of siblings category, but have 12 children fitting that in a neighbouring authority. But it might be a completel nightmare trying to get those 12 childrens profiles and ask to be considered, because your LA want you to wait for more children to come through the system, and the neighbouring LA want in house matches first
- On a wider scale, come counties just don't have many children waiting, or have a very different set of children waiting than other counties. The set of children waiting in Hackney or the city if Birmingham is going to be very different to the set waiting in a rural Welsh county, that's just how it is. Plus more adopters are approved in certain counties than others, there's an imbalance there too
- Huge shortage of adopters from certain backgrounds/religions - I was reading the blog of a mum who went to an adoption exchange day when she was approved. She was the only Muslim adopter in the room, and she described how the social workers were coming and seeking her out as soon as they saw her, throwing profile after profile at her, so many she was hopelessly overwhelmed with them. So many Muslim children for so few Muslim adoptive parents. And then there's large numbers of children in certain cities with, say, Afro-Caribbean roots, and nowhere near enough approved adopters for them
- A lot of hard to place children waiting, and no where near enough adopters for them
Here I agree with Serrakunda, because (most of) my DD2's needs were recognised and diagnosed when she came (developmental delays, learning disability, PTSD, very challenging behaviour, attachment issues) her placing LA knew they were really unlikely to find an adoptive home but were willing to put in quite a bit of money to make it happen/work. They were offering me a high level of adoption allowance (~£500 a month) until she was 18, she had already had therapy and CAMHS work which wasn't having much impact at all, so they were willing to fund more - and less than 2 years in, they were funding us to go further than CAMHS, on to a specialist centre (like Family Futures, but a different one!). I hadn't finalised at that point because they knew upfront that I wasn't going to finalise for quite a while until support was in place. I had SS support with trying to deal with DD's very unknowledgeable and unhelpful school (it didn't work, but at least they tried!), they were on board and helping me with the Statementing process. This was all concluded before finalisation which didn't happen for over 2 years. So there can be advantages if you have a GOOD LA with a good atittude, and want to adopt one of their children with recognised needs. Not needing to fight for support, having your child needs already recognised - the advantages of that really can't be overstated.
I mean, there are LA's who have many young babies - especially now. I am reading prospective approved adopters on forums, their LA's have like 15 babies under 18 months, all available for adoption at the same time, with more coming through the system all the time. I'm seeing LA's for whom babies under 2 make up the MAJORITY of their waiting children, not the minority, like it was only a few years ago. Of course some LA's still have very few babies, it's very area dependent, but there are many more babies now than before
But there is still a mismatch between what prospective adopters will consider and what issues waiting children have - particularly with things like alcohol exposure in utero, family history of mental health difficulties etc.
But SUPPORT is needed. I CANNOT support LA's trying to recruit adopters for children with challenging issues, if they aren't at least going to do what DD2's LA did and throw money at the adoptions to make them work. This is even worse since all the budget cuts, because LA's have really cut back on what they are willing to spend in adoption support/allowances etc. I want all waiting children who can live in a family (knowing that some have needs which are too great to be compatible with any family life) to have a family, but to have a family which is supported, and knows what they're doing. We will never have fully enough adopters for the most challenging children - I mean, sometimes I think 'were you a wee bit insane when you read everyting about DD2 and still said yes?!', and I know very few people will ever feel up to raising a child like DD2 (and that's okay, it's a HUGE undertaking), and I also think children like my DD2 are best off with experienced parents, not first time parents. But leaving the most challenging children aside, and going back to common issues like foetal alcohol exposure, developmental delays in a toddler...yes there's a mismatch between the children and the waiting parents
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Post by lilka on Nov 26, 2013 14:29:31 GMT
Some LA's are definitely not considering adoption as an option for older children, purely on age grounds. It makes me sad, to be honest. I believe in the difference adoption can make to a childs life, whether they are 1, 5, 8 or 11. Age shouldn't be a reason, on its own, to disregard adoption as an option. Yet some LA's now state on their webistes that the children in their area for adoption are all aged 0-7, or 0-8. Imagine I was adopting again, and truly wanted a child aged 7-10 - how many LA's wouldn't have ANY children for me to consider? Just because of age. The increase in the number of 0-2 yearolds waiting only makes this problem worse, especially with children in the 2-5 age bracket. Suddenly, LA's are finding their 2 year olds hard to place, because of their age alone - 2 year olds!! Because they have a lot of children under 2 and nearly all their prospective adopters know they have lots of children under 2, and will wait and hold out for one of them. You can see why faced with a 5/6 year old, some social workers are starting to think it's pointless even trying to find them a home, because no one wants this child  By the way, I find it very interesting to compare waiting childrens profiles from the UK and the US. Since a couple of US parents have asked for help 'decoding' the SW language in the profiles, I've seen quite a few profiles now and then I had a search myself, out of interest. There's a MASSIVE policy difference regarding which children should be placed for adoption and which shouldn't. I looked at the equivalent of BMP - page after page of children aged 8-17, all needing adoptions. Hundreds - literally hundreds - of 16-17 year olds, all waiting to be adopted. Very few under 7's, the ones there were had either serious medical needs or extremely challenging behaviour and a rack of behavioural/MH diagnosis. Children who had children - like I remember a 16 year old girl hoping to be adopted, who had her own daughter aged 1 and was described as a great mum, and the adoptive family should be a family who would love to become parents and grandparents at the same time. It was just interesting comparing the cohort of waiting children. And sad. Very very sad |
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Post by serrakunda on Nov 26, 2013 16:52:36 GMT
I do feel so sad for the older ones, I had profiles thrown at me too because I was clear about looking for a school age child, regardless of any other consideration. For all his quirks Simba is a fantastic child, he lights up my life and has even managed to get my slightly grumpy arthritic stepfather playing board games. I do believe there was even a football kicked at half term ! With some adjustments we have a pretty normal life, I think its sad that if I hadnt come along Simba would still be bumbling along in FC, where he was happy enough but what would have happened to him at 16? or when he realised that FC didnt want to adopt him but she did want to adopt another fosling who had been in the home for barely three months?
Its a good point about loyalty to birth mum but I think its important how you as the adoptive parent react to things and manage that aspect of our lives. Simba was with BM until he was 4 and with same FC from 4 till he came to me at nearly 8. In his ideal world BM, dad and little bro, FC, me and him would all live in the same house together and be one big happy family. I tell him houses big enough for all of us are very expensive and we cant afford it. The point is I dont take it personally. I dont upset if he calls her XX or mum, sometimes he calls her his first mum and me his best mum. But I dont mind what he calls her - she is his mum and he lived with her for a long time, cant change it, she exists. So I acknowledge her, and his feelings about her, we blow her magic kisses because they will find her and we talk about her if he wants to. He knows deep down that he can't go back. The relationship I have with Simba is separate, I don't feel any less his mum and she isnt a threat to that relationship
I know a lot of adopters don't think like this and for good reasons, but Simba's BM was not criminal, just incapable and unable to take care of herself let alone a baby. But again I think BF issues put some adopters off another set of children.
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Post by lilka on Nov 26, 2013 17:18:04 GMT
If I hadn't adopted my DD's 1 and 2 - no one would have. If I hadn't adopted them, they'd have grown up in care. I don't often think about that, because it's honestly too painful a thought. I can't bear to consider my daughters out there with no safe home to go to and no secure safe parent, it's too awful to think about I think the same way Serrakunda - Contact can be very offputting to prospective adopters, and whilst I think the majority do come round to the idea of letterbox one or two times a year and see potential benefits, most people are very put off by direct contact, lots of indirect contact, or a child who won't have DC but does have a lot of love for their BPs, and this is another barrier to matching for the children who need contact. DD2 has always called her other mum 'mummy'/'mum', and I don't think of myself as the only mum. I see myself as a real mum of course, her special forever mum, but not her only mum, and that's okay with me. As long as I am 'mum', I don't need to be the only mum. I did feel a bit insecure when DD first started meeting her mum regularly earlier this year, because I was frightened DD would stop seeing me as her mum and only want her other mum/reject me completely. But it's not worked out like that, so I'm feeling relatively comfortable again now (relatively. There's always bumps, especially when DD tries to triangulate us, but I'm no longer worried about her just rejecting me, because she hasn't done it). She lived with her mum for 4 and a half years and saw her quite regularly for the next 3 years. She hs some strong memories. Not a lot of good ones of course, but memories none the less. And therefore a strong connection and familiarity. Eldest DD does see me as her only mum (she has said to me 'you're my true mum' which made me all tearful. Not tearful because I was happy at being the only mum, but tearful to know the depth of our relationship and how much she loves me). Our older kids will make up their minds, we have to be accepting and acknowledge all their lives before they came to us Actually, because eldest had no desire for contact with her BP's and really honestly hated them and was scared of them, it was hard for me to do the complete 180 with DD2 and go in the opposite direction. Quite a lot of contact, two mummies, loyalty, love etc. I found it hard to come to terms with how DD will forgive her anything, whether it be terrible neglect, permanent injury, abuse, letting her be abused etc. But I have had to find a way, and found that open adoption/two mummies has actually been helpful to DD over the years, and a good thing overall That's not to say they have a fantastic relationship now - DD2 and her mum's relationship is dysfunctional, and the past and the abuse/neglect is just going to hang over the relationship forever for DD. She cycles between anger, love, loyalty, upset, wanting to cling to her mum, wanting to reject her. I can only hope DD comes to feel more certain and less up-and-down as time goes by, about how she feels. Some older children need contact, maybe they will really benefit from meetings once or twice a year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be adopted. Adoption doesn't need to mean a clean break. As long as the child would be comfortable having new parents (in the emotional sense as well the later legal implications), and doesn't need to see their BP's more than a few times a year, adoption could be the very best thing for them. I have heard a few times the idea expressed that if a child needs any DC whatsoever they should stay in LTFC and not be adopted. I couldn't agree less. Adoption isn't just a set up for parents who need to feel exclusive, it's about the individual childs needs. A child could definitely benefit the most from adoption with contact, like my DD. |
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Post by swimchic on Nov 26, 2013 19:47:02 GMT
Really interesting thought provoking conversation.
My SW asked me last week if we would do it again. Its too early to say if we would or wouldn't. However, she did go on to say that they just don't have any children at the mo and they said the same to us, back in April.
I guess a lot of people want babies. We didn't and am so happy with my beautiful funny little lady. But you do wonder...
Swimchic
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Post by sooz on Nov 27, 2013 15:00:49 GMT
I've been weighing up, for a long time, about the pros and cons of adopting again. This time around I would go for a school aged child. I don't think it's something I would have considered first time around or thought I'd have been able to cope with, but having ds has taught me sooooo much. The pull I feel to do it again is so strong, but this time, if this makes sense, more for the child than for me?
Not sure if I put that how I mean it, but hopefully you know what I mean!
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Post by imp on Nov 29, 2013 12:05:44 GMT
Thank you for your contributions, a good read.
I do think that geography and finances have a great deal to do with the current situation, and would be a strong advocate of a truly national search for the right match-----nut know that finances and personnel resources hamper this.
My other thoughts are that some approved but not matched adopters may be too selective in what they are looking for
The children's written information may actually be TOO factual (yes, needs to be honest but not initially offputting)
The adopters paperwork may not be detailed enough.
Thoughts?
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Post by kstar on Nov 29, 2013 19:19:00 GMT
Oh wow what a great discussion.
I get a little frustrated when reading elsewhere (not on here!) about prospective adopters who know everything and don't want to listen. I think it's maybe because the advertising for adopters is always about creating perfect families, so lots of prospectives have no idea what they're letting themselves in for. There is definitely a faction who think adopting a baby is "easier" because somehow they think a baby comes with less baggage. However when I think about how much time Starlet and I spend talking about her emotions, her experiences, her memories... And then imagine trying to get inside the head of a non verbal child... I just thank my lucky stars I made this decision. However I have to say I had to fight my social worker all the way, she was constantly pushing me towards a younger child.
Looking back I also think the prep course could/ should have been split in half - two days early on about the realities of adoption and the process, followed by two days post approval about looking for a match, therapeutic parenting etc and real nitty gritty work on what to consider with a match. Somehow it would have felt more real to me at that stage? Pre approval I was too bothered about making an impression on the SWs and perhaps didn't ask the challenging questions I otherwise would have done.
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Post by gilreth on Dec 3, 2013 17:38:48 GMT
I know at the moment we are a rarity in our LA for having a child over 2. In 5 couples so far placed from my prep group, 3 have under 1's (1 was 4 1/2 months on placement), one have a sibling group (4 1/2 & 16 months) and we have Sqk who is 28 months old now. Most of the other recently placed children I know are under 1 as well. Think our LA is one of those with a lot of young (under 2) children to place and not enough adopters. Sqk's older siblings are in LTFC (eldest) and a home - younger sib too damaged for adoption and elder considered too old as well as fairly damaged. I would like to adopt again once Sqk is settled in school but I need to persuade DH after the issues my sister & BIL have had following 2nd placement - not that they regret anything.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 11:28:32 GMT
Looking back I also think the prep course could/ should have been split in half - two days early on about the realities of adoption and the process, followed by two days post approval about looking for a match, therapeutic parenting etc and real nitty gritty work on what to consider with a match. Somehow it would have felt more real to me at that stage? Pre approval I was too bothered about making an impression on the SWs and perhaps didn't ask the challenging questions I otherwise would have done. I think kstar makes a very valid point about splitting the preparation workshops into two seperate halves, as you need time to read up and talk to other adopters to arm yourself with pertinent questions to ask before chosing a child. This is where sites like this are invaluable, as prospective and approved adopters, can come on here and ask experienced adopters advice on all sort of things. I think some SW's would rather adopters were left a bit in the dark, as informed adopters make their jobs harder because they are more clued up and press for more information/support. I also think that once approved, and whilst waiting for match, adopters should be offered courses in things like "intro's and preparing to bring your child home" and "what to do in the early days, school issues" etc. If there was access to more on going support/courses it would give adopters something to do whilst waiting for a match and would give them more knowledge to make the transition that bit easier for all concerned. But like with everything else, sadly it all boils down to money or lack of. |
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Post by esty (archive) on Dec 4, 2013 12:59:14 GMT
In my area we are very fortunate in having an after matching panel set of meetings where the above things were discussed. Not always in great detail, however we did have a number of adopters come and talk which was always useful. The best part was meeting up with other approved adopters who were waiting.
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