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Post by serrakunda on Oct 13, 2013 18:17:27 GMT
Promped by someone complaining on the new site about how fed up with the process they are, being all of four weeks behind schedule, I've had a look at the process. It does seem to be presented as a seemingly effortless flow through the various stages, where all paperwork from all agencies will be completed on time, with no holdups, no issues, no lack of availablity of SWs etc etc. I dont see how the introduction of a few deadlines is really going to change anything fundamentally. I did decline to go into the detial of the 4 years it took me to get approved
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Post by imp on Oct 13, 2013 18:35:11 GMT
Reading various posts on the new boards---I do pop over there occasionally, it seems to me that many of the prospective/new adopters really don't have a clue about a)patience and b) the realities of adoption. Methinks that the new process just isn't doing anyone any favours.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 20:09:15 GMT
Not seen it since I don't frequent the bubble boards, but is this part of the Governments promise to speed up the adoption process by rushing prospective's through quickly?
That's not the part that needs speeding up, it's freeing the children for adoption sooner, is the bit that needs to speed up so that they spend less time in care and being messed around by BF when everyone knows from the start that BM won't be able to care for the latest baby, or the next one, or the one after that.
That's the bit that needs speeding up
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Post by serrakunda on Oct 13, 2013 21:24:17 GMT
the new process has clearly defined stages
Stage 1 - Prep group, medicals, CRB, references - 2 months Stage 2 - Home Study - 4 months
Bingo and you're done !
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Post by loadsofbubs on Oct 13, 2013 21:42:20 GMT
i'm kind of torn on the speeding up of the processes on both sides of adoption. I do think that home study should take a while (not 4 years, or the two years it took for me for fostering 6 years ago), but there does need to be time to consider by both the adopters and the sw's involved. there should be dealines though for accountability but there also needs to be an element of flexibility on both sides to accommodate individuals specific needs and differences.
I am also broadly in favour of the speeding up of the process for children. the blonde bombshell is 4 in two weeks and has been in care since she was born. the system has utterly failed her but there is light on the horizon for her (much as it is causing me extreme grief at the minute) and she should hopefully be adopted by the time she has her 5th birthday. that's too long. but, had she been adopted as quickly as littleman is about to be then she would have been adopted without the full health history and without any professional opinions about her development, that at 6 months I could see going towards delay but which everyone around me denied. she is now a significantly delayed little girl with a multitude of difficulties so in someways easier to adopt now becoz there is little uncertainty anymore. for little man, one of many other siblings all removed from BP's, then the speedy timescales mean he'll be home with his forever family just after he turns 6 months old, very young for around here, but if the time scales had been in place three years ago for tiddly bubs she would have been adopted out of her culture before a suitable family member was found to care for her. she was 12 months old before her aunty was identified and is now living very happily with her auntie, growing up in her own culture and doing extremely well. she would have lost that had she been born the same day as little man.
so while on the whole the speeding up of the processes is a good thing, I do think that sometimes a little more caution may be needed and sometimes finding family members takes time, and children really should stay with birth family members where those people are safe to have them.
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Post by imp on Oct 13, 2013 21:43:32 GMT
Couldn't agree more jmk. and yes, new system far too speedy for adopters, really isn't fair on them as doesn't give them time to explore Adoption and its ramifications . I am sure that there will be far more problems post placement because adopters will have been rushed through the process
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Post by mr.vml3m on Oct 13, 2013 22:54:30 GMT
Reading about this and seeing 'old school' adopters like me, I'm now beginning to reflect on our own journey. Based on the new process, ours what quick even compared to that. Are we unusual then? Under the 'old rules process' we did prep course, home study and approval in 6 months. Prep course in October & November 2010, approval panel March, found the girls in May, brought them home July. So prep course to placement was 9 months in total.
Guessing this was quick and unusual then?
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Post by serrakunda on Oct 14, 2013 7:31:27 GMT
Partly depends on when you start counting MR VLM! think there have always been people who landed into the process at the right time, eg just in time for a place at a prep group , I had to wait 6 months from my first enquiry to getting on a prep course and than another 4 to get an SW allocated, But if things had gone well it would have taken me about 8 months from prep group to panel - but I had a serious fall out with SW but thats another story.
The point I was making is that many new prospective adopters seem to be very impatient. If they are 'fed up' with the process because something that should have taken them two months has taken three, then I'm not sure it bodes well for the future. I've had my fair share of gripes about sloppy work from SWs but I can recognise that as a profession they are under a great deal of pressure with workloads etc etc.
I just feel expectations are being raised
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 11:41:10 GMT
Think that's always the worry with setting guidelines, as people will always compare where they are, with others.
This is where I worry about the Government wanting to speed up the approval process. I worry that adopters won't be prepared enough and will be rushed through to make the statistics look good.
When we were first approved to adopt in the late 90's, before I fell pregnant with our BD, ex and I were the only ones in our workshops who were approved straight away the other 4 couples and one singlie all had to go away and work on different areas be that, family issues, counselling, or whatever. SW's were doing their job and worked out that they needed more time to work on certain areas or expectations or whatever.
Perhaps the fact that I was adopted myself and had grown up with 3 adopted siblings and had 9 other adopted children in my extended family helped, who knows, or perhaps it was because I knew how to play the game, add to this the fact that myself and ex were a mixed couple and there were more mixed/black children in care who knows? But at least the SW were able to see who needed to do more work and made sure they were ready before approving them.
With speeded up targets and Auk not wanting us to tell prospective adopters the truth about life with traumatised children, it is almost like a conspiracy of silence these days, because let's face it, adoption is a lot cheaper than keeping a child in care, and this is why I worry, and why experienced adopters weren't made to feel welcome on Auk for telling it like it is.
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Post by nancydanfan on Oct 14, 2013 12:33:13 GMT
What needs to speed up is the recruitment of good experienced SWs going right back to child protection issues and supporting foster carers and the adopters already with children placed with them.
There needs to be a ban on all the cliches LAs spew out when a child ends up dead eg, "we are learning lessons". There needs to be a speed up on agencies working together to protect children and professional heads rolling when they don't. Each individual SW needs to be made more accountable and managements and budgets need to be more accountable in ensuring SWs are properly supported and not overworked.
It would be good if people with more life experience who are not so gullible were recruited into SW so that us parents are not being told how to raise our kids by naive, inexperienced, unqualified students who think they have a right to voice their "professional" opinion even though they are too beeping lazy/ disorganised/ stupid/ misinformed/ lacking in basic common sense/ devoid of compassion/ lacking analyltical skills/ suffering from verbal diarrhoea in the area of "social work language".
There needs to be a speed up in ALL information about a child being adopted being passed on to adoptive parents. There needs to be a speed up in punishing LAs who do not keep accurate paperwork/tamper with paperwork to make a child more sellable. There needs to be a speed up in good quality therapy for the whole adoptive family if needed when we are left reeling because of the absence of honesty/poor support/ blame shifting.
Now I've got myself all wound up I'm going to have a coffee break.
Actually I think part of the preparation should be that potential adopters get to adopt a SW for a year, listen to the inane drivel they spout and then decide if they can handle that for X number of years.
I do accept there are good SWs but I'm beginning to think they are rarer than I first thought.I do wonder how the ones with integrity survive in the system. If I ever find one I will fall down and worship them after I have spent a lot of time checking that they really are genuine.
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Post by Ad-minnie! on Oct 14, 2013 18:19:18 GMT
Took me 5 years!!! Which was too long and stressful!!! However, with hindsight I am glad it wasn't as quick as it might be now as I have learnt so much. I have met one too many naïve prospective/new adopters (can I add I have also met many who are very clued up) which really worries me ... they seem to think that once child is home it will be / is no different to having a birth child.
Like others I feel its the freeing children up for adoption that should be speeded up. I looked at a profile for a LO who was BF's 5th child. And, despite comprehensive previous reports and no evidence of change the SW's were still going through the procedure again! However, I think what loads of bubs said is important too ... . Although uncertainty is a big factor in adoption, I think as the child gets older there can sometimes be more "knowns".
With regards to SWs ... I have been extremely fortunate with both my SW and LOs SW. Who knows how it will pan out in the future ... but it was good having good SWs early on. My SW gave me excellent advice about managing the early days and has helped when I have needed everyday parenting advice ... and never made me feel bad for asking/not knowing.
Minnie x
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Post by knight on Oct 17, 2013 19:34:00 GMT
Toko: very succinctly put: people do tend to fall into those camps and clearly, a huge worry for their future children if they fall into the latter. I gather there is room to manoeuvre between stages 1 and 2 with a 6 month gap before having to repeat the Prep course; and, if stage 2 needs to take longer than the 4 months – I gather that it can so, that's positive. I guess that if I were not so reflective, not had the life experience, not spent a couple of years researching, etc etc, etc., and came to adoption very much as a “newbie” in that sense, I would have absolutely pressed on with stages 1, to 2, no gap, not wanting any delays, etc. Knowing what I know (and in truth, not really knowing it until I face things when my LO is home) - what kind of adoptive parent would I have made? I don’t really want to think about that as I think it’s too much of a concern ~ which is what you’re saying JMK. Whilst I thought Prep was thorough and amazing, apart from life experience, one of the best elements of prep I believe was the old (and now our new) boards. You have several choices: back off totally; reflect, digest and take on board the possible risks or, don those rose tinted specs!! LOBS: what if one of the new style newbies who’s only prep is actually the prep and homestudy – was linked with the BBS, feeling confident that they could manage her needs?? It doesn't bear thinking about (although I’m delighted her new parents are on their way, it is very sad though that she’ll be nearly 5 by then and spent so much time in care, although positive that she had you in her life). I agree with you Minnie that it’s getting the children through the legal system speedily and then finding them adoptive parents quickly which needs to step up a gear but then, even though that’s supposed to be a 6 month period to final Care Order, if the stats are 4/5 children waiting to every one prospective adopter(s) – the maths are never going to add up and that is so saddening. I guess that’s why the focus is on the new 6 month timescales for the adoption process to attract more prospective parents……trigger some ill-prepared/inexperienced adoptive parents are not only going to struggle potentially but when they do encounter issues, be faced with a lack of accountability and support from those higher up the food chain. It is all such a worry.
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Post by gilreth on Oct 17, 2013 22:26:48 GMT
I do worry about the new process at times - DH & I were 9 months from official application to approval - but from then on it has been a roller-coaster ride. Going to be less than 8 weeks from being linked to the boy moving in which is pretty fast when you consider we have had extended Intros due to DH having to work. But going back to process I do feel that speeding up children's side could be beneficial. Our LO has been in care since birth - but placement order was partway through this year (just before he turned 2) However as we put it fate intervened because he wouldn't have been there for us if the legal system hadn't been slow. We have less uncertainties because of his age which is good in some ways.
New process would not have given me the time for reflection that I have used during the home-study which I and DH both needed. We can see the benefits in some ways but also the downsides from a new adopters perspective. We've been an odd case for our SW due to our experience with recent adoption within family so we are not a typical first-time couple. As she has put it - we have realistic expectations. Also I have read around a lot and thought about the problems that could occur - so am not going into this with rose-tinted glasses expecting a perfect family.
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Post by annie70 on Oct 17, 2013 22:37:44 GMT
For us it will be almost exactly 2 years with this LA from intro evening to placement... plus another 10 months with previous agency who did not want us for various reasons...
I genuinely think we needed this long (and still think we're not ready at times!)... we both worked full time and have active social lives and the learning takes a long time to sink in...
Having said that, we always knew we would adopt and could take our time - if someone is trying for a family and can't conceive and feels that they were totally ready for a family years ago then maybe it's different...
BUT on the whole I think the process for prospectives is too fast and I do worry that, without the time for reflection that we have had, there will be more disruptions - the SWs are pretty good at telling you what you don't want to hear but it does take a while to sink in - and if you don't give it time you run the risk of the scenario that Toko talks of where people just want to have ownership of their adopted child - trying to leave the rest of their lives behind...
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Post by vickyvixen on Oct 20, 2013 21:30:20 GMT
I put it up on the other site but London black cab drivers were protesting the other week because the new crb check (can't remember what it is called) - the same one we have to have - is taking over 3 months & some of them are having to find new careers because they can't wait that long. So it is ok for the government to put schedules in place but they're not taking into account external factors like this. There's a backlog & it'll be interesting to see the results of the new schedule as they'll have to publish info on how long it really is taking at some point. I thought the point about where people are personally in the process was interesting. I did so much research into adoption before even registering my interest - I knew I was ready & (thanks to you all) knew a fair bit (warts & all!). But there were some on my prep course who'd not done any - any- reading at all on it. I was really surprised by that. For me it was so important that I was as prepared as I could be... I am encountering delays as I write but I'm not too concerned. It'll happen next year -hopefully!
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Post by justbserene11 on Oct 21, 2013 12:00:26 GMT
I believe that the home study needs to be thorough and the would be adopters need to have 'thinking time' as you do really need to question and absorb everything. Therefore, speeding this area may have consequences in the future. What l believe needs to be speeded up are the prep courses and approval/matching panel. We used a VA and even then they only ran four prep courses a year! From my understanding the approval/matching panels are only held once a month, when we were matched with our LO and all agreed to proceed with the match (which was in June 2012), we were informed that the earliest date for matching panel was in October.
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Post by knight on Oct 21, 2013 18:11:05 GMT
Vickyvixen: my DBS (CRB) came back in 4 days !!!! and I know somebody else's which came back pretty quickly as well - so let's hope that's universal. I would have been really irritated if I had left it any longer to go with the original LA (who said 2 yrs ago it was 8 mths to approval so should be 6 mths now) ~ if I then had to wait 4mths from prep and still not be allocated a SW. But for those people who don't research and educate themselves on all-things adoption - those delays are probably really helpful although I can appreciate they wouldn't see it that way (at least until after the event). B11: you have a good point - the element which really needs speeding up is from linking to MP to intros: not for prospective adopters benefit in that sense but for the child whose new parents have now been found and they need to be prepared and moved on asap (provided of course that is not to the cost of a lack of info to adopters).
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Post by gilreth on Oct 21, 2013 21:14:39 GMT
Can I say less than 5 weeks from link to matching panel and a week more to Intros is an interesting ride having just completed it... Normally more like 7-8 weeks round here.
However panels in my LA happen fortnightly and decision is ratified 3 days after panel so Intros usually start within a week ( with babies can be a fortnight)
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Post by kstar on Oct 23, 2013 17:56:23 GMT
I too would worry about home study being rushed and not being thorough enough. I was much better prepared than a lot of people on my prep course, having spent a year or so reading and researching before I even made contact with my LA. however, I still needed the reflection time on all kinds of things during home study.
For me, the waiting was for a prep course (6 months), for approval panel after mine was cancelled due to the weather (3 months) and then from link to intros took forever, which was the most frustrating. That was mostly around everything being done at the foster carers convenience, around their holidays etc and fitting in with their BC which personally I didn't feel was acceptable, and my SW has since admitted should not have been allowed to happen.
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Post by taliesin on Nov 10, 2013 14:53:57 GMT
CRBs can now be done on-line so are quicker arent they??....Ive had 4 done (adoption plus 3 voluntary orgs) in last year - all of which have been back within a week.
And although we did our approval process under the 'old' scheme, we completed HS to approval panel within 6 months more or less to the day.....it flowed, it was sensible timing, it worked - so I have no issue with that speeding up under the new scheme either. (we had to wait a year to get onto prep course, but that was 'our prepping' period and Im glad we had to wait so long)
What I think is essential is (I think it was Tok said) - the key is to the quality and expectations of the prospective parent; this could be identified by HS within 6 months but only if you have experienced or very clued up SW who can also be allowed to defer adopters if its felt a need....but how many times have we seen posts where prospectives feel their SW 'doesnt get them' and sometimes advised to go elsewhere??
so personally I think there needs to be better 'vetting' before resources are spent on HS and then achieving what is a realistic deadline....now thats hard to do because prep course isnt enough.....youre still relying on prospectives being honest with themselves, and most of us have experienced the 'baby/family hunger' when you'll do anything and tell yourself anything to have your family.....
I've always maintained that prospectives shoudnt rely solely on HS or what SW's can/should/do for you - there has to be personal responsibility to meet others, get a balanced and realistic picture, read the books, self reflect etc.........and sorry, but until youve done all that you shouldnt proceed!
there needs to be an 'in-between' vetting stage.....maybe a panel meeting before HS where you persuade panel why you think you'll make good adoptive parents, what you learnt from prep course, what else youve done to prepare yourself - a job interview before you start the training of HS if you like.....
I dont know........but Im still gobsmacked re: another post (cant remember who, sorry), where they said intros had broken down 'cos AM couldn't accept a ginger child.........sorry, but they should be revoked as prospective parents!
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Post by serrakunda on Nov 25, 2013 9:42:45 GMT
News on the intenal mail at work today
the adoption team won the award for best policy at the Civil Service annual awards for this year
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Post by daffin on Nov 25, 2013 13:15:46 GMT
I think feelings about the faster process depend partly on personal experiences. Ours was too slow, and I welcome the new drive for efficiency - though not if it means that people are poorly prepared. I suppose I don't feel that the HS prepared us for anything (!!) and a longer process wouldn't have done more (as the social workers we dealt with we're dippy and disorganised). I would rather that additional resources went into effective post adoption training and proper post adoption support (backed up by research into what works, tracking adoptees to identify likely long-term outcomes and much much better training and recruitment of social workers). I would like to see the court process reformed so that Court Appointed Guardians are held accountable - or that layer is removed, and that those involved in the court system (judges, barristers, solicitors,guardians) are better trained in the implications of delaying removing and placing kids for adoption, understand that direct contact while kids are LAC is not often in the kids best interests and really understand the life long impact of neglect/abuse on kids. Until these changes are made, SW will take the blame for systemic delays not in their control and flaws in the system they recognise but can do nothing about.
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Post by damson on Nov 26, 2013 9:39:54 GMT
I don't think greater speed would have improved life for us.
Truthfully, we would have benefitted from being respite carers before we adopted. The children would not have been 'our children', but we'd have gained a lot, and they would have had a nice break. Our house would have been more sorted for children, we'd have learned first hand about attachment problems and controlling behaviour. And then, like grandparents, have handed the children back to someone else! We would have road-tested lots of kid-friendly activities, and we'd have met the local parents in the park. We'd also have made connections to foster carers, and who knows, some of them might have become friends - and a source of support and kindness when we adopted children full time.
I suppose what I am saying is I'd have had more of a clue, compared to the life I actually led. Hindsight is always 20:20
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