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Post by kizim on Nov 26, 2015 5:06:47 GMT
up pops Enigma with a new face, attitude, wanting contact...oh and some money please because her life as gone pear shaped.
Amongst her many statements in her skype conversation (please skype with me mummy because when you see me you will forgive me -she thinks she knows me only too well)
Bfamily are not all they are cracked up to be on the happy fb photos
Tells me she knows it is fake
She wants to put her life together and has been working hard (season now finished - no more work)
BF and her have been together 1 year and he is a stable character - altho knows only a highly edited version of dd's past exploits.
She is sorry for all she has done and was just childish and stupid - can we put it all in a bubble and blow it away (our childhood game) or she will send me a list of her 'crimes' and we can burn them on NYE - what even her claims of sexual abuse?
I have decided I will send her the additional monies she requires because I can and I want to - but I am trying to have no expectations beyond that.
What has surprised me is DH...he has appeared to be the stronger one and the most condemning of dd - not unsurprising...but he crumbled so fast and stated ringing round friends to help. Telling her how worried we had been for her. I suggested he take a step back and not get into any details right now. She could just disappear again or retract all her apologies...just like before. I did not see any real remorse or concern for our feelings. Nor did she ask any questions about our new life here....just about her. Time will tell. I remember Bop recently feeling their dd had had a change of heart - only to be disappointed. Distance helps.
Hugs to all fellow sufferers
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Post by corkwing on Nov 26, 2015 7:59:32 GMT
Hugs to you, too, Kizim.
It's so hard not to believe they've changed when we so desperately want them too!
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Post by kizim on Nov 26, 2015 8:13:34 GMT
Yes it is....but I have my AUK boots on...and geography will keep my nose out of her life too. In fact although I will send her some cash to relieve the visa problem I will not go to the bank today....because I don't want to  Learning to let go....little by little How is Mackerel in his new school/life?
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Post by bop on Nov 26, 2015 9:51:13 GMT
((hugs))
It is so hard when they appear to have genuinely changed - I hope it is genuine, but you are right only time will tell.... I phrase it "optimistically cautious" - keep looking after yourself, DH and Whizz
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Post by mayan on Nov 26, 2015 11:03:33 GMT
In a trice so many emotions once again stirred up - so very very hard for you all.
What struck me from your post (probably because it is something so familiar territory to me) is the control she is seeking to exert across the miles and gosh don't they put a lot of energy into thinking about what will hook you in - how and when you forgive her is yours to decide. Our ds has to make his own peace with what he has done and find his own forgiveness for himself as and when he is able. Knowing that he is not able to make us keep carrying all the hurts he has caused not least to his sister I think created a profound change in our relationship. It's hard to write but sadly the truth is that for us projecting his hurt onto us was and is if we let him - the dysfunctional dynamic in his relationship with us. As and when we do have contact (currently none for quite a while for no particular reason...) he knows we are more immune to his machinations and each year that has passed has meant that we have become more able to accept that this is our reality - meanwhile we work on the task that is making his sister more resilient for the years ahead. The last contact was when he said he was coming over with a card and a present for his sister 9 months ago and then nothing....so we understand his methodology, protect ourselves where we can, show our forgiveness by actively welcoming him as and when, giving him another chance and keeping ourselves strong in the interim. One can always hope that one day ....but in reality this is just how it is albeit it has taken a long time to get here. For my dh it has taken much much longer not least to fathom things and especially his own vulnerabilities and hurt - a very painful reckoning for him when he has seen his son's behaviour and how he has been duped or played in the cold light of day and echoes of similar behaviours in our dd (though to a lesser extent). we are all still works in progress 12 years on from starting this dance of trying to stay connected - now we 3 here take much comfort in knowing that what we were and are still in his head and will always be - for every firework he sees break across a sky overhead, every Christmas card, every plant, flower, film or place that his eyes will fall on - similarly every smell or sound or in your case bubbles - they are bound to us and we to them. for us pretty much most days now that thought is really enough to fill our hearts and you know I even caught myself in the moment whilst standing in my kitchen cooking the other day and it was a good feeling - something is finally replacing the many tears, the hurt, the pain that once lived there so very very often.
It's a long path to who knows where for all of us....
Much love and much strength along the way
Mxx
Ps For dad's especially and no doubt like my dh they fret and forever worry about their little girls and want to protect them from the world but at least your dd seems to have found and maintained a relationship with someone who seems somewhat decent.
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Post by corkwing on Nov 26, 2015 17:07:17 GMT
How is Mackerel in his new school/life? Thanks for asking - and remembering, with everything that you have on! The start was rocky. Endless phone calls! Which is good, as it shows some attachment to Kermit. He doesn't phone me. He's now settled in and we're having good reports from the home and the school. God, in this case, is relative, but he's showing signs of engaging with them on his behaviour and actually wanting to change things, which is really positive.
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Post by bop on Nov 26, 2015 17:11:51 GMT
Thanks for the update Corkwing - I'd been wondering too. Good to hear things are more positive for him.....
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Post by pluto on Nov 26, 2015 20:09:12 GMT
It sounds to me manipulative, keep your head cool and do not forget untill she proves with good behaviours that she really has turned a corner, what comes out of her mouth means very little. Sit back and give it time, she made your life hell for a very long time, forgive and forget is not yet on the agenda. Do not dive in with all your emotions, do not give her controle. Be friendly and 'cool', it is oke when you call, it is oke when you don't (that sort of attitude). Than if this all turns out positive you can give her 'more of yourself', slowly. Become emotional involved, start trusting her, start to relax around her.
Most important straight now is to look after yourself and protect your feelings, try not having expectations.
But it sounds like there is a glimmer of hope, what is great news!
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Post by damson on Nov 26, 2015 22:19:11 GMT
Here is my cynical pre-Christmas season translation '...funds from birth family have dried up and there are no other willing hosts. I will now apply maximum charm to the most likely source of support.'
If you only ever hear from someone when they want goods or services, does it constitute a relationship?
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Post by kizim on Dec 28, 2015 8:00:37 GMT
dam you damson  of course you were right  I am pleased to say I was not entirely taken in by her despite the amazing amount of charm and love and wanting her family back. Little clues were her constant flow of msjs that never asked a single question about Whizz or DH just a how are you sweet mummy followed by a litany of the stress she was under and when will the money arrive? Sadly, bank issues (very different banking system in Vietnam) prolonged our 'relationship' but finaly the money arrived but our planned Christmas Day skype session didn't. My gentle reminder of how we were waiting was met with a torrent of abuse that she did not want to se us because I was attacking her followed y the usual cascade of lies and false allegations against DH and a family friend - who now apparently planned it together (she had badgered said FF for sex for over 2 mnths at the same time she made the allegations against DH) Of course none of this happened in her eyes. She was so full of vitriol and hatred. I kept very calm but did not accept anything she said....and then she blocked me again. Great Christmas present. I felt like I was made of glass for a day or so but I also felt relieved it was over. I am stl slightly stunned at how quickly she changed - I dont think the money was for visa...think she is off to the UK & bfamily- there does not seem anything left of the child I adopted. For all her quirks and attachment issues that child bears no connection to this heartless, merciless person.
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Post by bop on Dec 28, 2015 9:03:04 GMT
((Kizim)) I'm so sorry
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Post by serrakunda on Dec 28, 2015 10:01:02 GMT
(((((((kizim)))))))
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Post by pluto on Dec 28, 2015 10:44:48 GMT
Make a mental note: I will not financial support or give this girl money for the coming 5 years. You do not need her, and that is the message she has to feel in order no longer to manipulate you. At the moment she is not a pleasant human being and if I was you I would cut all contact for a year, instead of living in hope. That is than your decision, not hers. If you stop playing her games she will soon get bored.
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Post by vickyvixen on Dec 28, 2015 12:29:01 GMT
So sorry Kizim
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Post by jmk on Dec 28, 2015 13:53:05 GMT
Sounds like the leopard hasn't changed her spots, at least not yet.
Sadly predictable.
Hugs xx
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Post by kizim on Dec 28, 2015 15:54:55 GMT
Sadly no change JMK but even so, the transition from sweetness to vitriol was shocking...showed me just how she has no conscience at all.
Pluto I have been thinking exactly that. Although I tried to be detached still it hurt a lot. I do not even recognise her right now and the crazy lying makes her unreachable anyway. I can not have any contact with her until she takes responsibility for how her lies and false allegations have damaged the people who loved her most - and no I do not expect those spots to change anytime soon, maybe never. Do I tell her my decision- I really feel like I need to spell it out to her - on the other hand I do not think she cares whether she can contact me or not.
Thanks for the kind thoughts from all of you.
Whizz has been extra specially nice with me...bless her...not easy for her because she is a naturally grumpy 15year old.
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Post by mooster on Dec 28, 2015 17:14:10 GMT
Kizim - I was so sorry to read all this and am sending you lots of good thoughts to help you stay strong and find you way through all this, so heartbreaking when you are still there for her.
It is so hard to find that piece of stable ground where you can maintain your sanity, feel some control and not get so bruised by all her antics.
Thinking of you all
Mooster x
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Post by pingu on Dec 28, 2015 18:50:02 GMT
The way I see it, she is not going to get the message until you actually refuse to fund her. Its a question of whether you can choose not to the next time she tries the charm. At the moment all she knows is that you always choose to give money to her when she says she needs it, because you " can and you want to" and she just needs to act sorry or approach you with a sob story.. Sadly , adopted kids are often emotional toddlers that we have to be firm with or they will just keep repeating the pattern and cant move on. Like an alcoholic, she may have to be left to reach rock bottom before she can find her way upwards. I think Pluto has a good idea of setting a time limit during which you will not give monetary help of any kind. If she does end up in the uk with the birth family they will know how to get benefits so you would have less to worry about anyway.
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Post by damson on Dec 28, 2015 20:06:20 GMT
Dear Kizim I am really sorry Enigma has bitten you again. No way did you deserve that vicious savaging after your decent, supportive behaviour. She did not even have the grace to say thank you. Distance clearly does not stop electronic communications but it does stop her rolling up physically and causing mayhem. (((Kizim DH and Whizz))) Happy New Year in your new world  Xxx Damson
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Post by mayan on Dec 28, 2015 21:20:26 GMT
So very sorry to read that E has behaved in such a desperately hurtful way to you all.
It's such a hard situation to be in - as a parent you want to keep giving her a chance to find a way back to you - maybe the next time or the next time there will be a change in the prodigal one - does one keep giving chances and opening the whole family - especially whizzy - to incredible hurt each time when there is a desperate need to heal a little even if deep wounds always remain. No easy solutions - no guidebook to tell us exactly how many times we must keep on trying before we say enough - our fragile hearts can take no more - and something that those suffering these estrangements and living losses have each to find our own peace with in time.
Thinking of you Kizim and hoping that whizzy at least can continue to provide some comfort to you at this very painful time.
Mxx
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Post by corkwing on Dec 29, 2015 7:14:20 GMT
Sending you hugs, Kizim.
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Post by mrbop on Dec 30, 2015 12:42:06 GMT
(((((HUGS))))) Perhaps one day she will wake up and realise what she's thrown away. In the meantime take care
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Post by kizim on Dec 30, 2015 17:37:55 GMT
Sadly, I have come to the same conclusion - and have made it clear in a final, very brief message to Enigma that unless there is a significant change I do not want any further contact.
The relief I felt at not having to deal with her crazy lies and scheming anymore hurt more than making the decision - I feel a little guilty to have stepped away. However, she is a few months off her 20th birthday and really she was running away for stretches at a time from the age of 16...and she is certainly a survivor!
We are off to the seaside tomorrow where we will see in the New Year. I love to walk on the beach on New Year's Day....hopefully it will blow away all the carp stuck in my head from this year and I can focus better on my new job and on Whizz and DH.
Thank you for being there....there is one thing...I now feel better equipped to offer support to fellow sufferers! HNY
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Post by damson on Dec 30, 2015 20:32:15 GMT
Good, in control of your own destiny for 2016 
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Post by caledonia on Jan 4, 2016 13:50:45 GMT
kizim
just catching up with this. I am amazed at your resilience and hope that your NY walk on the beach helped. Its time to protect you and yours, and sadly at this time Engima does not fall into this category. she is the loser in all of this and I hope for her sake that she takes a tumble to herself sooner rather than later. Well done to Whizz for realising that you needed some extra loving at the moment.
I hope 2016 brings you the peace you all deserve
Cale X
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