dinky
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Married Adopter
Posts: 57 
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Post by dinky on Nov 19, 2015 14:56:22 GMT
Well it looks like we will be going down the S20 route with DD?  Any advice / tips gratefully received. A just about managing to keep it all together Dinky xx |
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Post by corkwing on Nov 19, 2015 17:02:33 GMT
Hi, Dinky -
Been there. It's hard!
Advice? Get as much support as you can! On here is good. People there who will hug you, laugh with you and especially cry with you would be even better.
Let yourself fall apart sometimes.
Try to keep notes of phone calls, meetings, etc.
It's likely that people won't understand. If that happens, it's a very rocky road. Try to be polite and courteous, but also if you can, be assertive. That can help.
If the people you deal with are idiots, that's not personal. They're just idiots!
Try to get your reasons VERY clear in your head.
AND LOOK AFTER YOURSELVES!
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Post by bop on Nov 19, 2015 18:01:02 GMT
((hugs)) from another that is also on that path....
As Corkwing says look after yourselves and AS as the priority. You may well fall apart, but you will recover too.
Things are likely to be up and down around AD for a while - both in her relationship with you and your dealings with SW (and in our experience sibling/family contact can be a tricky area)....
On a more positive mote, I hang onto the fact that many adoptees are able to re-establish positive realtionships with their adoptive families as they mature, although this can take until their eraly twenties....
More ((hugs))
Bop
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Post by moo on Nov 19, 2015 19:25:14 GMT
Hugs dinky xxx
Sorry to read this xxx
Sending gentle hugs to you & dh xxx {{{}}}
Xx moo xx
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Post by serrakunda on Nov 19, 2015 19:53:16 GMT
(((((((Dinky)))))))
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dinky
Bronze Member
Married Adopter
Posts: 57
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Post by dinky on Nov 19, 2015 21:53:17 GMT
Thank you for your support. We are keeping to the same routines as much as possible so that DS doesn't unravel (too much? ). DD is presently staying with friends but it is not a long term solution and she is flatly refusing to come home (or even talk to me although she will to DH). Her reasons for leaving are many and varied (depending on who she is talking to and what she thinks will get her the sympathy vote? ). She has always been "difficult" but this has come out of the blue really. We are very lucky that family, friends and work are very supportive of us and so far all the professionals have been too. Dinky xx |
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Post by mooster on Nov 19, 2015 22:05:23 GMT
Oh Dinky, I really feel for you.
We had a rather ugly unplanned route into Section 20 and were emotionally exhausted and drained - nearly three years on, feeling much recovered I would do a much better job now so be kind to yourselves as things will happen around you and you will wonder what is going on!
From my experience:
Many of the meetings that go on with SS are basically paperwork exercise that they are required to fulfill, sometimes the timings of these meetings appeared odd, planning meetings happened after moves were made etc. We went to everything, even ones that were cancelled because SS or FC's couldn't get there and no one told us!
We spent quite a bit of energy protecting our AS who remained at home when AD moved out, SW's didn't really see the rest of the family, concentrating on the child they were caring for and her needs. We had to be quite tough to make sure his needs were also being supported especially around contact, hate that word and told them so, she was our daughter, we visited each other!
Our AD was placed with inexperienced FC's who thought they were the rescuers to our daughters plight, SW's involved didn't really understand adopted children so we did have a real battle to stay sane - think the victim/rescuer triangle which left us as the perpetrators! It took six months but the truth came out and all of sudden the FC's and SW changed their viewpoint and we started to be heard. Hopefully if your move is planned you are already being heard. Even now we are a really unusual case with SS because we have been so involved, most older children don't have that parental involvement/support so they have sometimes been caught napping!
I can remember feeling totally undermined and confused about my role as a Mum, not helped by AD deciding to call me by my first name which was followed by male FC and some SW's when they talked to AD. It seems trivial but was huge to me so if something is important stick to your guns over it. The not knowing what is going on was very tricky and our AD is a master liar and manipulator so good communication between all the adults was vital if we weren't going to be played off against each other - some professionals coped with this better than others, some thought they knew AD better than we did, hmm.......! We managed to get put in place a regular update/phone call from FC's, it had few hiccups but that's another story!
Many of our family were very angry with our daughter for what in their eyes "she put us through" so be prepared with your explanation to family and friends as well, it will be hard. Things will crop up like how do you sign family birthday cards when she is not living at home, what do you do with her room etc.
Most of all use your time to recover and recharge, I had counselling to help me recover and have become so much more accepting of what can and can't be achieved with our AD. We came close to having her move back home, she choose not to and we now have a strangely okish relationship. We are definitely MUM and DAD and a place of safety while she tries out what the world has to offer.
On a positive note our AS absolutely blossomed almost from the moment our AD moved out, home was no longer a battleground and there were no longer eggshells all over the floor that we had been walking on for quite a number of years.
Sending you hugs and.....breathe....
Mooster x
PS just thought, make sure school understands what Section 20 means - our AD's form teacher refused to give me any information, she saw fostercare - dangerous parents!
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Post by elderberry on Nov 20, 2015 9:40:42 GMT
This conversation terrifies me because it looks like my future.
Is there anything anyone who's been through it thinks could have been done earlier to stop the slide into S20? Other than therapy, which we are in principle (though not currently in practice) having.
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Post by bop on Nov 20, 2015 10:50:40 GMT
Reflecting on our situation, I'm not sure much could have been done - although maybe earlier SW intervention may have reduced the impact on the rest of us as we were thought to be the liars and that DD was telling the truth - I was even told that "no child could be that manipulative" by a senior adoption SW.
DD1 was always the one that failed to attach to us in anyway - she resisted physical affection, spending time with us or allowing us to help her. Even at 8, she only agreed to adoption as it was the only way to stay wth her younger siblings and always intended to return to her birth family at 16.
Initially she was quite compliant - helping out (although with hindsight that was in her role as carer for the younger two) and fairly even-tempered - but she did have lots of issues around eg food, irrational fears, body image - as she hit her teens she very dramatically fell off a cliff and within a few short months things deteriorated to the point she moved out (and we felt relieved).
From my observations, it seems to be that children removed at about 4/5 are most vulnerable to this stuff - they continue to have an idealised view of their birth family and as they hit their teens, they want to detach from their adpotive families and go back to their birth families...and the fall out is huge. On a more positive note, any younger siblings seem to flourish when older (parental) siblings move on....
I think we did all we could for our DD, but the damamge done before she came to us was just too much - effectively we had 6 years to undo 8 years worth of damage. The SWs have said she is doing far better than if she'd stayed in care and they can see the positive impact our parenting has had on her, even if she is still struggling in so many ways and completing rejecting DH and I.
((Hugs)) to all those going through this at the moment - it is incredibly tough but there is life on other side....
Bop
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Post by damson on Nov 20, 2015 20:53:06 GMT
Hi Dinky
l hope your DD's alternate Versions of reality are not clouding your vision and you're able to stay sane. It sounds like she is trying hard to split you and your DH.
We're 3 years on, and looking back, what Mooster and Bop say rings very true for us too. l think parents have very little influence over what happens once a youngster goes into care. There are very few placements available , so it is chance where they end up. And yes, your DD's Versions of reality will be believed and any helpful advice you try to give may well be ignored. However, Sws and Fcs will get wise at some point.
Section 20 is a lot more rough and ready than family life, but then family life is what our youngsters can't stand.
xxx Damson.
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Post by kizim on Nov 21, 2015 7:14:32 GMT
I don't have experience of Section 20 - although I am sure I would have done had we been living in the UK when my dd 'fell of her cliff'. Instead we struggled and floundered and went slowly insane - she had us all dangling on the end of her line at different stages throughout her very turbulent adolescence until gradually she ran away more than she stayed home and her personality seemed completely changed (or maybe it was revealed) and there seemed no real emotion for us. Now she lives with her bf who believes we hated and abused her and is back in touch with bmum and others wh she gets to go visit in the UK and play happy families with.
It still feels very raw for me. I knew for years, from the beginning, that there was an attachment problem but I never guessed I would end up where we are today. Estranged. No contact. No relationship. Separated by lies and seemingly unforgiveable actions.
My daughter, if she still is/was mine, is 19 years old now and everyone says she is an adult and I have to leave her to her choices and not alow her to psychologically manipulate us anymore - and I agree but sometimes it hurts so much it takes my breath away...or the emotional pain I carry spills out onto some less painful situation making me overreact.
It would be easier if she had been a raging/openly angry/rebellious/aggressive girl...but she always acted in whilst acting out....blamed others...covered herself in lies and fake identities. A real passive-aggressive capable of kissing you and telling you how much you mean to her and walking out of the door and telling the next person you beat her up. She has such sincerity is such a sweet girl that many people believe her ...even me...sometimes I wonder did I exaggerate everything...overreact...but then I have to recall what she has done to other people and I know my confusion is a remnant of the years of manipulation and control she exerted on all of us.
I cannot imagine our relationship ever being repaired. and it breaks my heart...but life is so much more 'normal' now...we have all been damaged by the experience but we were sent an opportunity to move half way round the world - and we took it!
A new environment and no visible baggage, no public drams - just private pain- is so much easier to bear.
My heart goes out to all of you still suffering and struggling with the realities of a damaged child. I know I gave my dd the skills to survive eve though I could not help her to overcome her emotional damage. I am sure all of you are doing the same - and more.
It is all we can do
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Post by bop on Nov 21, 2015 7:49:05 GMT
It would be easier if she had been a raging/openly angry/rebellious/aggressive girl...but she always acted in whilst acting out....blamed others...covered herself in lies and fake identities. A real passive-aggressive capable of kissing you and telling you how much you mean to her and walking out of the door and telling the next person you beat her up. She has such sincerity is such a sweet girl that many people believe her ...even me...sometimes I wonder did I exaggerate everything...overreact...but then I have to recall what she has done to other people and I know my confusion is a remnant of the years of manipulation and control she exerted on all of us. ((Hugs)) Kizim This paragraph really rang true for us - our eldest presents so well that she has everyone taken in - after a while some people begin to see underneath, but usually that's when she dumps them and moves on.... sadly I still carry some of the scars and overreact to stuff the younger two do that trigger the trauma we lived with..... |
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Post by corkwing on Nov 21, 2015 8:25:52 GMT
This conversation terrifies me because it looks like my future. Is there anything anyone who's been through it thinks could have been done earlier to stop the slide into S20? Other than therapy, which we are in principle (though not currently in practice) having. For us, we came to the realisation that Mackerel wouldn't cope with a family - and certainly not ours. He may have done in a family with no other children, but I still suspect that the intensity of a relationship with a parent, and particularly a mother, was just too big and too scary for him. I remember about 6 months after he came to us. We were watching one of our older ones play in a school football match and we saw him having a big, floppy cuddle with a friend. He could never manage that with us. So, in answer to your question, no I don't think that anything could have prevented it. In hindsight it should have happened a lot sooner! |
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Post by jmk on Nov 21, 2015 13:38:30 GMT
So sorry to hear this are bad for you Dinky.
None of us ever imagined we would be part of the Section 20 club. It is not what anyone ever envisages when they adopt their children, but sadly it seems adolescence and puberty can trigger huge issues and identity issues for our children far and beyond the
normal teenage angst and we parents often get caught in the crossfire being blamed for everything bad in their lives by both our children and sadly all too often by the professionals who afe supposed to support us through it.
Please do not blame yourselves or feel it is your parenting that caused this, it is not. Sometimes our children have to detach themselves from our families and live elsewhere in order to figure themselves out and where they belong and fit in in this world. Sometimes this distance is needed and sometimes it helps, sometimes not, but whatever happens you can still be her parent if only from a distance.
Distance can sometimes help as it gives you a break from the daily battles, gives you time to recover your own equilibrium too regroup and battle to get appropriate assessments/therapy for your child. It also helps to a certain degree when others like the FC eventually sees the behaviours you had been describing when no one but you had previously seen them and SS were doubting your word. Sometimes it is only when others live with our children that they see these behaviour as few of them can keep it together once the honeymoon has worn off. Thìs can often be bittersweet as although it confirms what you have been trying to tell the profs all along, it is also very saddening when your childs needs become apparent to everyone else.
Try and think of it like boarding school, where your child lives elsewhere, where you do keep in contact by phone, text, visits etc, but where they kind of have another life away from you, albeit in someone elses home. Sometimes after the honeymoon is over, your relationship with your child can improve when they realise the grass isn't always greener and they start to miss the good things about being at home. You can, with the right help, build on this and hopefully move forward over time.
It does however very much depend on where your child is placed and whether you get a good FC and a good IRO, otherwise it can be the beginning of many more moves and much disruption which helps no one.
I would follow the others advice. Always keep a diary, record every meeting you go to, insist on getting minutes of ever meeting and keep them in a folder for future reference. Follow up all phone calls with a paper trail of letters or emails so that you have a record, because it is amazing how forgetful SS can be about what was agreed/discussed on the phone and if you don't leave a paper trail, you have no evidence if you should need it.
Try and forge a relationship with the FC if at all possible. Some of them are amenable and some most definately are not. Make sure that the FC understands what Section 20 means, that you have full parental responsibility for your child and should be consulted regularily when decisions need to be made. In my experience, quite a few FC's do not seem to understand this and can resent us 'interfering' in their rules and decisions about what your child should and shouldn't be doing according to their ideas. There is nothing worse than a FC who u dermines you and allows youŕ child to cause conflict between you by playing you off each other to get what they want.
There are quite a lot of us Section 20 parents on here who can share advice and experience should you need it, somplease just ask as and when.
Hugs to you, stay in touch and let us know how it's going. Xx
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Post by lankelly on Nov 23, 2015 17:32:43 GMT
So vital this thread. Thanks all. Bop, did you get specific support with the aftermath effect you mention ( from AC that transferred) to others?
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dinky
Bronze Member
Married Adopter
Posts: 57
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Post by dinky on Nov 27, 2015 14:39:32 GMT
Dear All, Thank you for sharing your experiences it is much appreciated. Our daughters seem to be clones of each other when it comes to personalities! It has been a very hectic week with lots of phone calls and meetings re DD and we also had school meetings re DS and his EHCP application on top of which he will now only be going to school in the mornings as his behaviour is spiralling again (not surprising? ). So many things whirling around in my head at the moment so I will leave it there for the time being but once again THANK YOU. Dinky? |
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Post by corkwing on Dec 4, 2015 7:20:54 GMT
Hi, Dinky -
Wondering how things are going with you at the moment?
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dinky
Bronze Member
Married Adopter
Posts: 57
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Post by dinky on Dec 6, 2015 11:37:56 GMT
Hi Corkwing -
Things are plodding along. DD is now with an experienced single foster carer and the aim is still to work towards her coming home. We should be meeting with DD sometime next week.
In the meantime we are trying to keep to normal routines for DS.
Dinky xx
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Post by corkwing on Dec 6, 2015 15:07:17 GMT
Hi, Dinky -
Is she under section 20, or, because she left home, is it something different?
Sending you hugs.
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dinky
Bronze Member
Married Adopter
Posts: 57
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Post by dinky on Dec 6, 2015 20:25:10 GMT
Corkwing - Yes, under Section 20
Dinky xx
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Post by damson on Dec 6, 2015 20:52:09 GMT
I will pm you, as our DD went into foster care in early December.
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Post by corkwing on Dec 7, 2015 8:27:50 GMT
Hope it goes well with the foster carer, Dinky.
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Post by haze on Dec 14, 2015 14:13:58 GMT
Dear Dinky,
We are treading the path to s20 in our home also so you have my sympathy & support.
My youngest is in Year 10 and it has been a horrible, horrible term.
I hope that your daughter is getting help and that you are getting the support you need. My advice is to be clear about what you want, keep notes of calls, meetings, don't be afraid to challenge minutes uif they are incorrect & most importantly try to look after yourself.
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