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Post by larsti on May 1, 2015 11:58:23 GMT
Another funny my daughter showed me
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyISprZphtM There are more sky news videos all very good.
I was thinking about what pirate said and had a terrible thought. What if the young people now and in the future DO vote by how attractive they find the candidates? We are in deep trouble  There must be a significant percentage of people who choose who to vote for by who they 'like' but there is some validity in that if its to do with character, ability or gravitas I suppose.
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Post by mudlark on May 1, 2015 13:37:17 GMT
I was 93% Green, 89% Labour, 87% Liberal 27% Conservative - not sure how these % add up!
I would vote green, but as they don't have any chance here I will vote labour...already indoctrinating the little ones to be labour party supporters.....!!
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Post by gilreth on May 1, 2015 14:14:43 GMT
I voted last week (postal as well) - Labour on national election as I cannot stand our ex-MP (Tory) - however bizarrely I voted for the Tory in the local election because I do approve of them at local government level (plus he has managed to get something sorted out that has been an issue as long as we have lived here and he is more of a councillor who votes as his head believes not as party dictates). I am a very floating voter - not voted for the same party twice in a row at general elections for the entire time I have been able to vote. Partly as I have moved around a lot - this is first time I have been in same constituency for two elections.
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Post by caledonia on May 6, 2015 10:17:09 GMT
I am really struggling with who to vote for too. Like bop I am north of the border in a very strong SNP area which surprisingly, and thankfully as far as I am concerned, voted 'No' in the independence election - the only time I have had absolutely no doubts about how I would be voting.
My vote won't wont make a difference but I don't want to not vote so haven't a clue what to do. I started on the survey but agreed with atleeast 1 of all of them statements so it took ages and I gave up. Must try harder for tomorrow.
Cale
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Post by mudlark on May 6, 2015 10:23:25 GMT
They are holding general election at the childrens school today, every pupil from reception class onwards has a ballot paper. All main parties represented.
Peewit was in tears this morning as I dropped him off, saying he was not going to vote because he only wanted to vote for Mr X ( the labour party candidate for our constituency)! Maybe I have taken the indoctrination too far!
I cant wait to hear the results!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 10:43:11 GMT
Can't wait for it all to be over TBH. Am bored to death with it all.  I voted by post weeks ago, so just want it to be over to see which shower we have to put up with for the next 5 years because there is not a lot of difference between them all. They all make loads of promises before they get in and then renage on their promises once in power. Cynical moi?  |
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Post by caledonia on May 6, 2015 12:43:18 GMT
what really annoys me is how they spend more time criticising other parties instead of telling us what they are going to do. But then as jmk says, they don't break the promises they make anyway so what is the point? only the point is people fought and died for us to have the vote so we should.
sigh - role on the weekend!
Cale
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Post by caledonia on May 6, 2015 12:53:54 GMT
Hmm - I now understand my dilemma
I have just done the quiz and come out with 60% - 87% with most of the main parties but Lib Dem is highest by 3%...............
Cale
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Post by mudlark on May 6, 2015 21:34:19 GMT
I love an election...I know they all break their promises and no one can be trusted...but I still love it!
More importantly..after each of the 350 pupils at the children's school cast their vote...The Green Party won! Labour second, Tory's, then straggling behind was UKIP.
I have to say if that is the representative view of our 4 - 10 year olds I feel the future is in good hands...
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Post by homebird on May 7, 2015 8:34:42 GMT
I've done quite a few quizzes to help me decide as I didn't want to trawl through all the manifesto's. So, one party became a clear leader for me and after going through the major points of their manifesto I am now decided - and its not the one I thought I'd be voting for!
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Post by caledonia on May 7, 2015 9:04:47 GMT
oh Homebird that made me laugh out loud in the middle of the office! Serves me right for looking at this and not working!
Cale
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Post by larsti on May 7, 2015 9:58:47 GMT
Well I am going to be like Delia and 'come out'. But not for Labour! I am voting Conservative.
Our local MP (Conservative) is retiring and the new candidate has been an excellent councillor and has lived here since school days. He will be a great constituency MP. But I would be voting for any Conservative candidate as the thought of a Labour government (especially if shored up by SNP and I say that as a Scot) I find deeply scary.
I think the coalition worked well though. I would be happy to see the same arrangement again.
I thought I would be brave. It seems not many Conservative supporters are willing to put their heads above the parapet here! Hope I still have friends here!  |
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Post by serrakunda on May 7, 2015 10:24:13 GMT
It's very difficult isn't it. I am and always will be a socialist and trade unionist, but fairly moderate. I used to have an MP who was very left wing, I didn't agree with most of his views at all, but he was a darned good constituency MP, you knew if you had a problem he would sort it out, so I did vote for him, but I would have been horrified at the thought of his branch of the Labour Party being in power.
I'm afraid I do think that if we have another Tory led govt in 5 years we will have no state education system, it will all be academies and free schools, and the NHS will be all but privatised, and these are things I care about very much remaining in public ownership.
But the current Labour Party doesn't really represent me either. So as I live in a safe labour seat I am going to cast a protest vote, so I will see who is on the ballot paper when I go, it could be greens, it could be monster raving looney party. Who knows?
I'm finding this election a bit weird for me, I'm very interested in politics and current affairs, always used to watch a lot of news and political programmes, since Paxman left I don't watch news night anymore so I usually just watch Question Time and This Week, but I feel very disengaged from it all. I haven't watched the news for weeks. I shouldn't really because I will be very personally affected by whoever becomes education secretary.
Last time, Michael Gove abolished the organisation I worked for, the lib dems basically want to reinstate it, the new SoS could decide to abolish my current area of work then I will have months of uncertainty whilst they all fight about it.
Larsti, I might disagree with you, but I do believe in democracy and I love a good old political argument, I have some good friends who are Ukipers, poor misguided people! Each to their own.
I think it's going to be a very interesting few days
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Post by fruitcake on May 7, 2015 13:45:46 GMT
It fascinates me how much being an adoptive parent influences me. When I look at, e.g. those two of my daughters who are clever and aspirational, I lean towards a Conservative vote. Having taught GCSE across several subjects now over seven years, I have seen a massive improvement in academic rigour in the GCSE syllabuses and exam practices. I want them to be able to buy their own homes, not be taxed to death but be able to keep more of their hard-earned cash ... well you get the picture (beginning to sound like David Cameron!)
But when I look at my son who has severe mental health difficulties and may never be able to work, genuinely, then I fear for too savage cuts in public spending. I don't expect the tax payer to keep him in luxury, but I want him to be able to have a decent if modest roof over his head, have enough to eat, be warm in winter, be able to afford the odd bus fare, have decent health care and even the odd modest treat. He will have all this for sure while my dh and I live, but when we are gone ... It doesn't surprise me that the majority of caring people on here lean towards Labour.
Another thing that makes me lean towards the Conservatives though is their preference for smaller government. Again, this is based on my experiences via adoption. We see public services at their absolute worst. Don't forget the adoption support fund came in under this government and allows us to choose our support rather than being expected to accept the cheapest available no matter how useless or inappropriate. And the Conservatives are very hands off re home education: you are left alone to get on with it and presumed to know what is best for your own children. Labour wanted to bring in compulsory registration and intrusive monitoring, and only failed because they ran out of time.
I'll probably decide when the pencil is poised over the ballot paper!
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Post by serrakunda on May 7, 2015 14:49:34 GMT
Thing is you can't have public services without tax, and this govt has refused to tax those that can afford it and go after the amazons and Starbucks etc who avoid it. Not saying that a labour govt would, but they are more likely to.
I think the improvements re adoption are a bit of an anomaly because of Edward Timpson and his personal experience and background, the adoption support fund has it's limitations and shouldn't be a reason not to invest in decent public services for all children. If it's a Tory led coalition and he gets a different job I think things will be different in the next govt.
Anyway I toddled off to the polling station, I was highly amused to see that the old leftie I referred to earlier was on the ballot under the TUCS, as no one really has a chance of unseating our current MP, I went for him as a protest vote. Went Green for local election. I was a bit disappointed that there weren't many independent candidates but very pleaded that BNP seem to have disappeared from this constituency, we've had s bit of a problem with them in the past.
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Post by mrbop on May 7, 2015 16:43:53 GMT
You're not alone Larsti :-)
I know my history and I know who Vidkun Quisling was and what he did.. and I'm not old enough to be simply written off as too senile to even know my own name... so I don't mind debate but nationalism of whatever stripe worries me and I hate that it has been stirred up on all parts of the UK and consciously or unconsciously "weaponised" in this election.
Tax is always a vexatious issue as I can't say I've met too many people volunteering to pay more than they are required to. Ultimately the tax system is created by politicians of all stripes and is far too complex, creating too much employment for tax lawyers (and politicians?) who add no economic value I can discern. Ultimately it distorts choice whether from individuals around housing to companies about residency and makes it easy for all the sides to blame each other with those coming into power then "being seen to be doing something" by making a rats net of rules even worse and trapping people through stupid and astonishing marginal rates for those trying to move off benefits or to better themselves. A group of friends and I tried defining social justice the other week as every party seemed to be trying to claim the phrase: it appears it is actually so amorphous a phrase as to be essentially meaningless in an objective sense.
I have worked with people of all stripes over the years and I'd like to think it has made me more tolerant and understanding of different views and needs but as noted by fruitcake above, am afraid my experience of adoption has left me with a deep suspicion of state appointed experts deciding and judging the fate of families often driven by a dim understanding of a textbook they covered when training years ago or a one day course they sat through last year. Pity they don't have "None of the above" as a positive choice on the ballot paper!
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Post by larsti on May 7, 2015 16:45:16 GMT
My views have changed a lot over the years Serrakunda! My parents were both lifetime Labour voters and looking back, there was a lot of talk about politics at home, not intellectual, theoretical stuff but just comments about politicians and a lot of complaining about things!
In '79 I was too young to vote but would have voted Labour and was cross about my friend who didn't know how to vote but went to the polling station with her Mum and so voted the same as her Mum (Conservative). If she had gone with her Dad she probably would have voted Labour like him :-( Safe Labour seat though! I just felt her Mum got 2 votes and maybe my friend shouldn't have voted if she really didn't know who to vote for! So politically aware, growing up, I suppose.
Sometimes my DH will say things to our older children about the NHS and all its faults and I always say I don't like to hear him say anything against the NHS. I know there are plenty of problems and more money won't necessarily solve them, but I remember my Mum telling me stories of her childhood and how they wouldn't go to the doctor because it had to be paid for, and her sister had all her teeth removed as a young person because that would avoid the need for dental treatment. So that really affected me. Also had it drummed into me that we must ALWAYS use our vote, especially as women.
Another way in which I've changed is that I used to be in favour of the first past the post system because it has worked well for 'the Mother of all Parliaments' but it looks like that is no longer true. Will be interesting to see the result.
Like Fruitcake, I appreciate the Conservatives lighter touch with home education. What Labour tried to do was scary. But I was no fan of Gove and his successor seems to have just carried on where he left off :-(
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Post by serrakunda on May 7, 2015 17:38:23 GMT
I agree about none of the above mrbop which is why I cast what was essentially a protest vote.
As far as the last govt is concerned I think the lib dems tempered some of the potentially worst excesses of the Tories. And I would be willing to pay more tax for good public services, even if I paid no tax I could never afford private education or private healthcare so I would be more then willing to pay more tax if it would ensure decent education, healthcare and social care for all who need it
Ohh I do love a good old political debate !
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Post by mudlark on May 7, 2015 19:41:42 GMT
I voted labour, but the Labour party do not really represent my views any more. I am I suppose'old school' labour but that doesn't work anymore in a political landscape which has become homogeneous. I want an NHS for all who need it, I want free education for all who want it. ..
But I too have friends from all parties...but not sure I know anyone who is voting UKIP!!
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Post by chotimonkey on May 7, 2015 20:23:36 GMT
Don't think I know I anyone Id count as a friend who'd vote ukip... Or that we could ever talk about it... It's where I lose the ability to be rational or just let it go!
But really enjoyed seeing everyone pass our door on the way to the polling situation, it's v interesting seeing how many people go with fanilies, friends, different generations...
Also loved taking the minis to vote with me, big made the cross, middle posted the vote and small thought it was a new and inventive playspace (we usually have messy play in the same space)
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Post by kstar on May 7, 2015 21:49:02 GMT
I felt my vote was a bit pointless as I live in such an unbelievably safe Tory seat and there's no way I would vote Conservative. My old MP to his credit was very good, both locally and nationally, but I can't support a party that is systematically destroying our education system and taking away everything I believe in at work and for Starlet at school. If they get another five years in government, we will end up with all children being forced into the same subject areas (they're not interested in anything except maths, English, science, humanities and languages and the last training one of our leaders went on suggested 75% of students should be learning Latin and Greek...) with the arts being squeezed out of the curriculum altogether. I don't want my daughter to be a tiny player in an exam factory :-(
Starlet was surprisingly interested in the whole process and quizzed me quite thoroughly about the different parties. She had some quite interesting ideas and in the end decided she would vote Green if she was allowed to vote... Good enough for me, I had been swaying towards green anyway so she was very happy with that choice lol! The greens have impressed me with a lot of their ideas this time around and at least they are thinking outside the box... Their education policy is like Disneyland for me - nirvana!
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Post by serrakunda on May 7, 2015 21:52:14 GMT
My UKIP friends are interesting, Big Bob is my friends older brother, he was an early UKIPer, when it was basically focused on just getting the UK out of Europe. His wife is the daughter of the late Lord Peter Shore, who some people might remember as a Labour cabinet minister who was anti UK entry to the European Union, which kind of fits. A couple of years ago in local election Big Bob stood in one ward, his wife in the next, and his mother in law in the next.
I've known Big Bob for about 25 years, I've never heard him espouse any of the more off the wall UKIP policies and he is absolutely not racist in any way share or form. He has the 'P' ripped out of him mercilessly by the rest of the family.
I think Farage has turned UKIP into a bit of a joke, I don't necessarily agree with it but I don't think there's anything wrong with a political objective of exiting Europe, but it has no other policies of substance and it has attracted some very unsavoury types.
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Post by serrakunda on May 7, 2015 21:54:11 GMT
Simba wanted me to vote green
I feel his reasoning was somewhat flawed
When I asked why he said, well it's my favourite colour
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Post by mudlark on May 7, 2015 22:03:30 GMT
I find UKIP very basic in its political ambitions...fairly nationally selfish and with no empathy for 'others'.
of course since I voiced some negative opinion about UKIP Lapwing has taken an interest in them!
No vote is ever pointless, just making the effort and showing an interest gives a really positive message to children. My two are all fired up about it and were keen to vote with me today. As we left the polling station, the reps from the parties stood outside , Lapwing told them with a sort of bizare authority... we voted labour..
Exit polls looking like we will get more of the same
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Post by gilreth on May 8, 2015 12:41:53 GMT
I am a bit of an oddity in that I only voted Labour as an attempt to get my MP out - he and I had a stand-up row a few years ago and I cannot ever bring myself to vote for him. My husband feels the same after some comments he has made in more recent times (we have one of the more right-wing Tories - so much so he could be a UKIP person). I would otherwise (with a more moderate MP) probably voted Conservative myself as I just agreed more with them than anyone else although with some fears for the public services (I did vote conservative in the local election). I hope they will not destroy them - and remove the safety net that I have seen is so needed at times - things like the 'bedroom tax' are a good idea but have been appalling implemented when there is no smaller social housing for people to move into round here as it has mainly been sold off and council was not allowed to build anymore. Plus the fact it applies to disabled people and foster carers are only allowed one empty bedroom (no wonder there is a shortage of carers for siblings around here). Benefit sanctions are also good in principle but badly applied - round here someone was sanctioned because he did not turn up at job centre for an interview - when he was at a job interview at the time and someone else was there 30 mins before time but was stuck in a huge queue.
I also have a great deal of concern of the focus on academic education rather than seeing children as individuals and allowing them to take qualifications better suited to their needs. I hate the idea of children who 'fail' SATs (i.e. don't make expected level) having to retake them in year 7 - we test our children too much as it is. We can't afford for me to home-ed Sqk - nor would I want to as I am too used to teaching adults at university level. Just hoping they don't remove the cap on university fees - that would be horrendous for the future generations. I can say that as an employee of a university with virtually all vocational courses (and those that are not are among the leading ones in the country in their field) - we are struggling due to the downturn in overseas students (who are an easy target for immigration figures - I want them out of those figures which at least Labour promised to do ). Overseas UK is not seen as open for students so they are voting with their feet. We struggle with home students due to city's reputation and fact we are in an area where there are 5 universities within 20 miles of each other and several good further ed colleges with degree awarding powers.
And don't get me started on the NHS - although one Tory policy I do agree with is integrating health & social care but I expect that will mean them taking more cuts again. I live in an area that has already been badly hit by the local government cuts and is bracing itself for more - yes we get more per head than councils in the affluent south-east but I also live in an area with high deprivation where both adult and children's social services are already struggling - that is indeed what most of council budget goes on. Expecting roads to get worse and provision of non-statutory services to disappear if the cuts are kept on same trajectory as currently. My neighbours complain bitterly that little council money gets spent around here as it is - well I expect it to be even less if the government cuts the money to local government further. Stuff that does happen round here is due to European grants on the whole - and if the referendum on that comes about I shall be campaigning (for once in my life) hard for us to stay in. I am very much a floating voter - have voted differently in every general election I have voted in (first one was 97 as just too young in 92) although I am the daughter and granddaughter of former Conservation councillors.
As far as tax goes DH is a higher rate tax payer and I would be if it were not for pension & childcare vouchers. If I (ever) get my promotion to senior lecturer grade I will be eventually a higher rate payer which does not worry me in the least. TBH would be happy to pay a little more on my income tax for more money for public services.
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Post by fruitcake on May 8, 2015 13:53:02 GMT
Interesting discussion. Serrakunda - I don't think it is just a Timpson effect as it is a key Conservative policy to have "smaller government" with more capacity for people to make their own choices - something very dear to my heart after some truly dire experiences with a monolithic, failing (officially), old Labour LA who apparently "know what's best" for my children while I am sidelined as an irrelevance! (I think they would prefer all local children to be housed in generously funded children's farms run by them with a visiting hour on Sundays for parents!)
Tax - a sore point as my dh pays a huge amount while I cannot work due to the children's needs. Our income - just about twice the national average, so equivalent to two modest salaries - is taxed as if we were rich. We aren't, though we would be if we had the money the LA would have had to spend to care for our children had we not come forward for them (four classified as "hard to place")! A stronger economy would generate more tax without people like us having to be hammered.
I do agree with you though re the need to maintain local public services to a reasonable level and I am worried about this, hence I voted Conservative in the general election in the hope of a stronger economy, but Labour in the local election in the hope of mitigation in public sector cuts! That shows how conflicted I am!
Education - academic education has been strengthened hugely, as I know from my own experience. I do agree though that the next step is to create a top class vocational stream as in Germany for the less academic (and also improve arts education, and widen its availability).
I must say I don't find politics boring but endlessly interesting. |
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Post by bop on May 8, 2015 14:18:45 GMT
Looks like we are stuck with the SNP for now - who are doing nothing for adoptive families - its not even on their radar!
Actually I'm quite pleased Conservatives are in with a majority as whilst I don't like some of their ideas, it does at least mean we don't have a Labour/SNP coalition.
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Post by larsti on May 8, 2015 22:06:52 GMT
I quite 'enjoyed' (but that's not the right word) the sense of history in the making.....the drama of the extraordinary results. How will the Union survive with almost all Scottish MPS being SNP? I thought the Lib Dems deserved better Never thought Ed Miliband was leadership material let alone PM material. What was Labour doing voting for him rather than his brother? On the radio I heard someone say that it was like a return to the 1980s for Labour. I remember Labour being 'unelectable' then which was not good for democracy. Interesting and difficult times. |
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Post by mudlark on May 9, 2015 5:51:49 GMT
I felt a sense of dismay.
As the dust settles I also felt for those people who have supported the liberals all these years, they were betrayed by Nick Clegg and they voted them into oblivion...sad as there is a place for British liberalism.
I am glad Ed Milliband resigned, I feel the labour party will have to do some soul searching. I agree it does feel like the labour party has floundered very badly and obviously is unelectable,
Totally astounded by the Scottish result, but someone said that the Labour party in Scotland was no longer relevant to the Scottish people...they certainly showed that.
I fear 12 million pounds of welfare cuts as promised by the Tories, does not bode well for some of the most vulnerable, I don't feel very confident that we are going to have a happy time in the next 5 years but just see a greater polarisation between the haves and have nots.
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Post by pingu on May 9, 2015 9:10:09 GMT
Like Mudlark I fear the planned ( and hidden) cuts. We depend heavily on our tax credits, which are likely to disappear in the various plans for " less dependancy" . Also the reduction in family beneefit proposed. if it wasnt for the adoption allowance we would be in homeless accomodation and the foodbank. This from being two working full time adults B.A. ( before adoption) we are not scivers, simply cannot get enough hours of work , and we are helping two kids thrive despite their background, but it is hard work, expensive and time consuming as you all know.
Looking at the way Scots vote it seems to me that most are not voting labour any more because they perceive labour as having just copied the conservitives and gave up their attempt to share things out a bit better. Scotland used to have a lot of labout MPs but we ended up with a conservative government. Now we have lots of SNP MP's but have a conservative government. I think the swing to SNP is not so much an indipendance desire, but rather a hope that things might be distributed a bit better. I suspect we will be disappointed. Like parts of England, we saw our industry and jobs disappear as priorities were elsewhere , and we see these policies continue to make it impossible for us to either get jobs or set up businesses that will give us an income.
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There must be a significant percentage of people who choose who to vote for by who they 'like' but there is some validity in that if its to do with character, ability or gravitas I suppose.
