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Post by fehrscaper on Sept 30, 2013 18:22:30 GMT
I need people's opinions because dd and I disagree on this...
If you had a 14 year old daughter, how often would you expect her to go out with friends, and for how long each time?
eg, would you be OK with every evening after school (2-3 hours), plus every Saturday and Sunday (half to full day)?
Or, would you say 2-3 evenings a week, plus one day at the weekend?
Or weekends only?
Or a different combination?
I'm talking out with friends, not at supervised clubs etc (which dd also does).
I'm interested to see if I'm being unreasonable in my expectations/wishes and whether I should relax a little or not. (I'm deliberately not saying how often dd goes out/wants to go out, to prevent subconscious bias from answers).
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Post by serrakunda on Sept 30, 2013 18:32:49 GMT
Although Simba is much younger I would say it depends on a few factors. Certainly not every day after school, particularly if she does supervised clubs as well. Where does homework fit in, having dinner with the family. I think I would be fairly restrictive to be honest, probably one day in the week ( Mon - Thurs) and weekends if its just general hanging out with friends, and maybe extra if there were specific events or birthdays etc. Though I can imagine that might be difficult to enforce
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Post by vickyvixen on Sept 30, 2013 18:51:20 GMT
My daughter & I have yet to have an argument over this, although I'm sure it's only a matter of time! If it was my daughter I would say not during the week and one day at the weekend as her homework has to come first. In reality she leaves school at about 3.15 and I get home at about 6pm and I know she hangs out with her friends after school. But as long as she is home by the time I get home - or when I tell her to be home by - I don't mind too much. She usually lets me know where she is. But I wouldn't let her go out late in the evening. I'm interested to hear what other people think on this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2013 18:53:59 GMT
I agree with Serrakunda it does seem excessive. I too was wondering when does she get get homework done? Also where does she and her friends go? Is it to each others houses, or just hanging around the streets/shops/park? I would be much more worried if she is hanging round parks etc, seem to remember your other post re the gang and knives? I would be far happier if she were going to a friends house, or having some friends round yours where at least there is an adult around in the background.
Trouble with parks and shopping centres is there is more temptation to get into shop lifting, or smoking, or worse, especially if there are undesirables around. I think 14 is still very young to be having that amount of freedom and I think I would limit it to one or two days after school, definately not more.
Also with the clocks going back soon, will she be in the park/streets in the dark? My DD's are a year younger and I know they are young for their age, but I do like to know where they are going and they don't go out anything like as much as your DD. They tend to either have friends round here, listening to music, doing nails, stuff like that, and go to friends houses doing similar. They do occasionally go shopping or to the park when the weather is good, but not every day and not when it's dark.
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Post by kstar on Sept 30, 2013 18:54:51 GMT
Starlet isn't old enough for that yet, but I would agree it depends what it's for and where.
A lot of our kids that age at the school i teach at would see their friends every day, but normally straight from school - eg two of them will walk to one house and have an hour crashed in front of the TV, then one will go home for tea. Or some parents have a rule that they have to go straight home to do homework and have tea with the family, but are then allowed an hour out somewhere local (ie if friends live close by). Weekends, I would say once and one day with family.
By the time they get to year 11, friends tend to come first and they are out whenever they're not doing school work.
I think there's a big difference between going to someone's house for a couple of hours where you know the parents and know they're safe, and hanging around on the streets til all hours.
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Post by phoebe on Sept 30, 2013 21:08:25 GMT
Fehrscaper,
I think you are in a very tricky spot! If you say no, in my experience, she will try to go anyway. If you agree to certain times, she will nod then come home when it suits her! Please don't feel at all that you are doing anything wrong here - your ideas are perfectly rational and reasonable. Sadly your DD is not operational as a calm, competent, mature and organised 14yo, but as a much younger person with much less self control, who is convinced you just want to spoil everything! There is no easy answer. I would try to keep going with the negotiation as long as possible, but I would work really hard at getting some boundaries in from other parents so they can do some of the legwork for you.If you don't already have involvement, I would get the targeted support team involved to work with her on keeping safe, and also speak with CAMHS about how you might manage this tricky phase. I would prepare for a very long and bumpy ride, but don't feel it's impossible. Do as much attachment stuff as you can with DD to improve your chances of keeping her onside.
Phoebe x
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Post by janpan on Oct 1, 2013 6:33:26 GMT
My 14 year old AS doesn't have many friends and they are all on school buses round here anyway, so other than after school clubs, they have to leave directly after school. My 12 year old does have one relatively secure friend, but they only see each other at weekends - we have structured stuff going on (music, choir, after school clubs) most nights of the week anyway. I know that I'd go for a very limited approach too even if the school buses weren't an issue. Their friendships are so stressful/ inappropriate!
Other parents that I work with - teachers - allow their kids to go out much later and unsupervised than that. But they had mostly steady backgrounds and are better at assessing risk than mine.
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Post by shadow on Oct 1, 2013 7:55:41 GMT
I wonder if posting somewhere mainstream like mumsnet would give you a range of answers of what "normal" families expect - as here you will generally get a skewed response as lots of our kids are completely off the rails one way or another during adolescence
As shadette never left the house while 14 (or 15 and it seems most of 16) I am "lucky" not to have been through this
I think you need the boundaries - even of she doesn't keep them - does she get pocket money - can it be dependent on her keeping to the boundaries? or would that encourage her to steal?
Sounds like a rotten time for you
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Post by aprilshowers on Oct 1, 2013 15:41:05 GMT
hi,
14ish is a horrible age for lots of reasons, as I have three teenagers I have tried different approaches based on getting it wrong first time round, we tried the only go out a couple of evenings a week, be in by 8pm, you can stay out later if you are at a club or at a party etc, all failed in a spectacular way, a lot depends on where you live, who they meet up with etc, before we moved we lived in a quiet town and most kids were home in by about 8pm that is after they had come home from school got changed sorted stuff for the morning and had a snack or tea. this of course was with the exception of my DS who went further afield as he did not like the fact that others would be telling me what he had been up to, and then he would miss the last bus...well it did stop running at 6.30pm, then he got later and later and eventually started staying over etc. Now where we live it is basically open 24/7, we still struggle with coming in times, for the last two weeks my youngest 15 has not even bothered to come home from school, rolls in at 9.30pm (which is their coming in time during the week with a late one on fri/sat. Nothing we do or say has altered this, she has had no pocket money for weeks, she wont come in to earn money so has been caught up with shoplifting etc. I see a lot of children out and about at all times, even some of the girls from the grammar school where I work so it seems to be the norm, but I am sure that they are not out everynight and most certainly are not as vulnerable as our children. It is a difficult one, if you can get her on side and draw up an agreement she may well stick to the rules, but only you will know if she can do it or not.
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Post by aprilshowers on Oct 1, 2013 15:44:42 GMT
me again,
What I want to add is that I speak with a lot of other mothers and teenagers do seem to need to spend time with friends, there are a lot of complaints about how much time they are away from the home or how much time a certain friend is round thiers, it is a teenagers need to be with peers, I remember my sister complaining that she never saw her daughter and yet when her son reached that age he was always near home with lots of friends in tow.
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Post by fehrscaper on Oct 1, 2013 17:53:54 GMT
Thanks everyone.
The situation with dd and I are that she wants to be out every evening and every weekend. She does come home after school, and then wants to go out after we've eaten. She has to be home by 8pm - although I have shortened this now it's getting darker, and give her a 7pm curfew. She usually sticks to time.
I have drawn up an agreement with her - she signed it... but ignores it. We had agreed she stays in during the week and goes out in the afternoons of weekends.
She does supervised activities several times in the week - both end at 9pm.
The problem is that her friends don't go to the same school - so she only sees them outside of school. And she has a lot of friends - more than I can keep up with!
Homework - she doesn't seem to have much. Which bothers me, because I want to use it as a reason to keep her in! I have a rule - homework first, friends second.
Maybe I should try and see the positives. She comes home on time... But I wish she'd stay home more. Her friends seem to be out ALL the time though! Interesting to hear the varied responses from you all. I do know she does seem to need these friends. She has a rocky time at school friends-wise.
**edited my response because I've remembered this board is open to all viewers**
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Post by peartree on Oct 1, 2013 18:11:32 GMT
I would have loved to be out that much as a teenager
Especially at 14
But ironically it's when I needed my mum most.
Greg keck says "just keep them close"
He's right
Sounds like she's really avoidant
Yet seeking emotional closeness
And also some thrills and spills she "thinks" she wants, maybe deserves (?) but are certainly giving her adrenaline rushes and making her feel wanted and prized by lots of pretty shallow friends and this might be easier to cope with attachment wise. What she needs is to be able to do contribution to home relationships in quantity as well as quality, and that's a tough call.
So perhaps set the rules like phones and devices have a nest to charge up overnight and at mealtimes, personally, dd will also recharge during the times you agree.
I'd negotiate 1 school night later out and if she's out Saturday- she's with you Sunday
If she's horrid to be with and a right sulky madam then get lots of breaks for you.
Are you out lots in the week? I bet not! You might want to explain why snogging up the park and laughing at xyz and drinking WKD isn't your bag these days.
Sometimes the reasoning has impact.
Can you enroll her in swimming, kick boxing etc? You can use CHILDCARE vouchers I understand for any registered provider?
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Post by fehrscaper on Oct 1, 2013 19:23:43 GMT
Swimming is difficult.She can swim like a fish and was at pre-competition level few years ago, but then the pool closed for refurbishment and when it re-opened, they no longer offered lessons and children were no longer allowed. Local pools aren't swimming pools - they're leisure pools. Or cost far too much to use regularly.
Kick boxing... she wants to do, but I don't want her to learn how to hit me properly...
She wants to do horse riding, but we have a transport problem and a cost problem...
I'll stick to the negotiation for now, I think. I know a lot of it is teenager rebellion, but it's so extreme - and if she doesn't get her own way, she is really, really, really angry and antagonistic. What with friends and her causing serious problems at school, I'm really stressed right now!
**Edited because I've remembered this board is open to all viewers**
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Post by kstar on Oct 1, 2013 19:46:08 GMT
A lot of our kids at school improve massively when they take up a martial art like kick boxing, or even joining a proper boxing gym. One of the first things that's hammered in as about violence being the last option, and that a huge part of the point of martial arts is defense and avoiding conflict. They also teach discipline and demand complete respect for each other. Might be worth a try?
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Post by fehrscaper on Oct 1, 2013 21:43:51 GMT
A lot of our kids at school improve massively when they take up a martial art like kick boxing, or even joining a proper boxing gym. One of the first things that's hammered in as about violence being the last option, and that a huge part of the point of martial arts is defense and avoiding conflict. They also teach discipline and demand complete respect for each other. Might be worth a try? She does karate. She knows not to do this anywhere other than at the gym, but the respect and discipline stays at the gym as well, unfortunately. |
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