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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2013 9:35:09 GMT
I wanted to start a discussion on here of the pro's and con's of adopting sibling groups, particularly of adopting groups two or more. I thought it was one of the most interesting discussions on the old boards and was most helpful to prospective adopters when deciding how many children to adopt. Hearing views from those who have already adopted two or more at once is invaluable to those contemplating having a large family. I cannot copy the entire thread from the old boards so though I'd start a new discussion on here instead. Would be grateful if others could post their views or thoughts. 
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Post by bop on Sept 29, 2013 18:15:40 GMT
We took three and whilst they can re-tramatise each other, they also get a lot of comfort and security from being together. For them it would have been far worse to have been seperated.
However three is hard - practical stuff in the UK is geared around families of four (cars, leisure, holidays etc). Also its really hard to give each the individual attention they need and you get little downtime as one always needs something and if more than one does, it can get really tough. If there are issues say around stealing it can be difficult to work out the culprit and therefore tackle the problem.
Bop
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Post by mr.vml3m on Sept 29, 2013 18:50:15 GMT
We have a sibling group of 2.
I think, from our experience, they pro's out weigh the cons. But, we are fortunate that our two have a very close bond and an excellent relationship.
Ok, they can still be mean and nasty to each other, just like any sibling, but on the whole, they are wonderful together.
Biggest pro I can think of is that they can and do entertain each other at times. They play together so well, you can escape for a moment without having clinging child to you!!! Ok, doesn't always work but you know what I mean!
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Post by phoebe on Sept 29, 2013 21:33:42 GMT
I think it very much depends on what the relationship between the siblings is before placement (if any), and the nature of their trauma. For my two, the way they were introduced was fairly disastrous, so has created long term problems. In all my recent discussions with professionals, it is clear that trauma bonds are a significant problem in sibling groups. Due to the level of need of many of the children available for adoption, I personally believe they often need to be either an only child or at least the youngest child by a significant margin. Obviously this in't the case for siblings placed together. I would want very careful assessments of the individuals and their inter-relationships before I would consider taking siblings together. In the case of my two, they would have both been much better off placed individually. I am sure lots of other sibling groups, like mine, are part of much bigger families. So insisting on placing them together is a nonsense as all the siblings are not together! Phoebe x
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Post by moo on Oct 1, 2013 17:27:55 GMT
My two were quite tiny when placed.... They had always been together.... No trauma bond check had been done..... Luckily thus far ( 5 yrs in ) no trauma extreme probs emerging as yet.... Because of their start when they first came they were in direct competition for food & attention.... Luckily I managed to help them feel secure & they now play well & are quite tolerant of each other ( between healthy bouts of trying to kill & out-do each other!!!!) Baa is the trickiest & suffers with difficult attention deficits & hyperactivity alongside attachments / asd but all in all as you would expect for a looked after adopted child.... skweek is slightly different but not as challenging .... I definitely wanted brothers & two.... I know I would not have felt complete if I had adopted a single child.... I was clear about what I could/ could not parent.... As a singlie i felt it essential for my children so i could offer them the best chance of happiness & a successful match.....Having said that I was more than aware that 'unexpected uncharted territory was the name of the game!!! We have truely Never Looked Back...... If i had my time over would I do it again...YES......in a heartbeat.....
I write this as a help to those starting their journey.... Please p.m. If you would like more info..... I totally think two is doable..... As long as you go in eyes wide open & check check & check some more the history both detailed & ' hidden'.....
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by phoebe on Oct 1, 2013 17:33:26 GMT
I think age at placement will obviously make a huge difference. DD, placed at six months, is so much easier to parent than DS who was 3. The downside is of course the number of unknowns when taking on a baby. It's a tricky one, but as someone earlier posted, every case on its own merits! Having as much info as possible is essential, and a guarantee o ffuture support for undiagnosed issues which may emerge. i think what Moo says is important too - really think about the level of challenge before committing.x
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Post by jollymummy on Oct 7, 2013 7:27:57 GMT
We adopted a sibling group of 3, two of whom were twins. They would not even have considered splitting the twins. At the time of placing them for adoption, there was not any reason why they would not place them together - other than not being able to find someone to take on 3 under the age of 4! However, their older sibling (11 at the time) was not placed with them. We were told she chose to stay with the foster carers but she has since said that the SW told her it would be difficult to find someone to take an 11 year old. Not sure we would have considered an 11 year at the time - we were only approved for under 8s. I think it was the right thing to do for the older child because she had parented the younger ones and this separation broke that cycle.
We did not have any problems, although I would agree with Boo about the practicalities of having three children - cars/holidays etc. Also. giving individual attention is difficult - more so in our case because the twins are very similar in their likes, etc. so it was hard to find something to do with one of them that didn't feel like penalising the other.
I haven't hear of the concept of trauma bonds - off to do some research on this.
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Post by jollymummy on Oct 7, 2013 7:30:32 GMT
Oops! Just spotted the deliberate mistake in my post - "Bop" not "Boo"!!! Sorry!
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Post by aprilshowers on Oct 7, 2013 9:28:49 GMT
For those of you who do not know me from the old boards, hubby and I adopted a sibling group of three, age at placement was 8, 6 and 5.
They are now 18, 16 and 15. things were never easy, firstly there were three of them and one of me, hubby works full time and I stayed home, initially it was their jealousy, and everyone said "oh all siblings are like that" but the difference was their jealousy was a survival instinct, we found very early on that we could not do spontaneous, we could not ruffle ones hair without there being a queue, or pay a compliment without a huge fight and they would literally attack each other or gang up on the one that got the praise. so we altered our parenting, kept things simple and basically boring, no surprise treats, if there was an event for one kept it low key etc. Roll o to the 12/13 mark and then it all goes wrong, their need for more control over their lives, the sibling trauma bond has caused us so much worry and stress it is unbelievable. We have had, CP, police, A&E, school refusals for months on end, violence to us and each other, theft from us and outside, drugs, alcohol and teenage pregnancies, regular absconding and complete disregard for any rules. after a lengthy assessment it is written that they have a serious sibling trauma bond, it is un-healthy, it clouds their relationships with others and each other, they should never have been placed together and most of the time it is impossible for them to live together, which is why there is a lot of disappearing and shutting off from us as parents and extended family, it literally takes one comment from one of the siblings and they do something daft.
The thing is at their ages, they had spent time together, a lot of it completely unsupervised, they were exposed to alcohol and drugs in utero, then lived a chaotic life in birth family, moves in FC etc, everything that should not have happened to them did, and unfortunately we were left with very little support to raise them. Getting anyone to look after all three was near on impossible, as people really could not cope. So where are we now, well we are still a family, but it is not anything like I expected, education was always a toughie, but surprisingly enough it was education that always supported us and the children, SW came and went, in one year we had 8....yes 8, PAS were out of their depth and where we live now there is no PAS provision, we have had adolescent teams, but now the children wont engage with anyone. Mine have made it through (well nearly) mainstream school, but by the skin of their teeth, we never managed to get statements, and the therepy that might have helped a few years ago was refused funding by two different LA's, so the end of the month I go to court for the first time, no doubt it wont be the last. We are not allowed to see our grandson as DS has upset his ex so much, and we just lurch from one crisis to another. For my children they really should have been separated, at least then one of them might have had a more positive experience.
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Post by damson on Oct 29, 2013 21:16:28 GMT
We adopted full sibs, aged 5 and 6.5 at placement. Everyone thought they should be placed together because 'they have always been together'. The jealousy was just as April describes. No-one talked about trauma bonds when we started out, and I learned about attachment theory some time later on too. I think there are definately times when they have been a comfort to each other, but there are many times when the lack of loyalty and ferocity was awful. They are apart now, as DD is in foster care, and both of them are thriving without the constant contact with the other. Would they have been placed separately if today's standards were applied? Placing sibling groups together is less trendy now 
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Post by taliesin on Oct 30, 2013 11:58:21 GMT
We're linked to half brother & sister 16m & 2.5yrs. I loved this thread on old boards and learnt a lot.....so my view is from very early on and I'm sure I'll have different view in few months/years...  ! We really struggled with whether to adopt a sibling group; initially, it was purely an 'instinct' it was what we wanted to do - in for a penny, in for a pound kind of naievity; there were also altruistic reasons (they're harder to place and deserved a chance surely??)....but with all the experiences I'd read about, I'd say it has been the hardest part of the pre-placement process for us - getting our heads around so many more unknowns and how potentially it could make more lives worse in the long run......and educating those around us  ! We took on board what we heard as mainly 'cons' and problems - they were the experiences we heard about - and it was the long term impacts we were most interested in - suppose like trying to tell the future through others experiences. Us trying to be realistic about the difficulties, our need to demand sibling assessments, question whether it was right for them to be placed together; we knew we needed information but really hard to know what questions to ask - must say the old boards and the wealth of experience was invaluable for us. But adoption for us, means giving a family to the children....taking them out of care...giving them a chance - however hard it is, that is our aim; if we have a happy, settled family life - that will be just great! But if I can look back in 20 years and feel I have made a difference - even if that just means giving them a chance and an experience of family life they wouldnt otherwise have had...I'll be happy with that. Its the trauma bonds and whether they should be together in the first place, professionals painting half a picture just so the LOs will get placements, that I worry so much about.... We're fairly sure of our limits so havent taken on LO's with 'significant' difficultes.....but also know our strengths and if significant issues develop, or it transpires they shouldnt stay together, then thats a battle we know theres a chance we'll be faced with, will need to deal with and fight our childrens corner. At the end of the day though - we made as educated a decision as we could make with so little information! I am under no illusions it will be hard, there may be times we regret it....I'm quite frankly carpping myself at the thought of 2 toddlers under 3 placed during the winter with little practical help! But for us, all the circumstances of the 2 we were linked with, have led us to think yes, its a risk, but on balance and the information we DO have, its a risk we think is worth taking. I will read this post again in a few months and in a few years and probably come to the conclusion that this was that defining moment when I should have taken another path at the cross-roads  !!!! Its scary and I live on 'hope' at the moment!
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Post by moo on Oct 30, 2013 13:49:24 GMT
Hey Tali.....
Like you two was always my number!!!
Sadly for us because our l/o's are so young it really is a leap of faith....
Assesments for all attachment & trauma based ills are impossible really.... I think no matter what if things seem good & doable as they grow it's the teens when the sh1t can & will hit the fan.... 
Who is to say what teenage angsts will be for all children not simply our damaged ones... I have friends with angelic loved & well attached birth children who have turned into demons at puberty!!! Gone completely off the rails & it really has come from nowhere!!.......
I sometimes think not enough emphasis is placed on natural personality traits to encompass resiliance..... We all know it exists but often maybe it gets overlooked.....
As with everything in life one can only weigh up the options & then decide & play on with the best hand dealt.... One of my favourite sayings is "hindsight is a valuable but useless thing"!!!! Coz we do all really do what we think is best at that time of making the decision..... It's always only later when it gets up on its hind legs & bites us on the bum that we think aaahhhh why didn't I think about that before!!....
Can't wait to read of your intros.... You have gone with you gut & researched like mad sit back & relax now & enjoy the ride!!!!! I would do it again in a heartbeat if I went back & did it over!!!!
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 11:48:33 GMT
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Post by moo on Feb 13, 2014 16:54:50 GMT
Great article Jmk.... Very thought provoking...
Thanx for the link.....
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by serrakunda on Jul 30, 2015 8:31:38 GMT
a few really horrendous accounts of disruptions involving siblings currently on AUK boards. Some quite shocking behaviour from SWs
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Post by mooster on Jul 30, 2015 13:16:02 GMT
I too have pondered on this one long and hard. Ours came at 5 and just 7, no mention of trauma bonds and certainly no thoughts of splitting them up. AD had been in mother role for so many years, she was not about to hand it over to me so my parenting was judged on a daily basis by a 7 year old who felt I was not up to scratch when things were not done her way - trying to help her be a little girl was just so hard. They used to argue lots and AD was often physically aggressive to AS but if the chips were down they would stick up for each other! We never felt SS or FC hid anything.
The turning point for all was when AD moved out just after her 16th birthday. AS suddenly blossomed, he could be his own man without AD's influence, home was no longer a war zone and he could relax because the day to day eggs shells were removed. You could feel his relief at the improvement in the household dynamics. Interestingly AD's choice of partners tend to be ones she thinks she can rescue, often polite and pleasant but with mental health difficulties, other more rambunctious lads tend to leave quickly, girl friends are pretty non existent.
Would they have been better apart? Actually probably yes but for someone to have made that decision when the only constant they had known was each other, well........
Time moves on though - I find myself often defending AD's choices when AS decides to put his opinions forward on the way she is living her life - he had it easier, he always had the mother figure, even if she was only three at the time. AD is so proud of what AS has achieved, I am not sure the same is true in reverse but at the moment that is fine as AS is able to make his own decisions without her input which is as it should be. Perhaps sometime soon AD will do something to make him proud!
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Post by bop on Jul 30, 2015 16:08:36 GMT
We took three and whilst they can re-traumatise each other, they also get a lot of comfort and security from being together. For them it would have been far worse to have been seperated. However three is hard - practical stuff in the UK is geared around families of four (cars, leisure, holidays etc). Also its really hard to give each the individual attention they need and you get little downtime as one always needs something and if more than one does, it can get really tough. If there are issues say around stealing it can be difficult to work out the culprit and therefore tackle the problem. Bop Two years on and some difficult times, I'd probably no longer recommend taking larger sibling groups - especially one that includes an older child who was a parent to the younger siblings....the trauma bonds and dysfunctional attachment were far more complex than we thought and sadly for us it went very badly wrong. The other two are now doing far better without their older sister living with them. Bop
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Post by mudlark on Jul 30, 2015 19:23:11 GMT
It has been a interesting thread to re-read. Having adopted a sister and brother aged 4 and 3 at the time, now 6 and 5,
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Post by mudlark on Jul 30, 2015 19:29:53 GMT
..pressed to quickly.....
anyway...I feel that we have yet to see the full extent of how their relationship will be.. I know they love each other, and can play together, however the shared trauma is deep seated and sometimes overrides everything else including their relationship with us. When that happens they feel like a distant planet...it takes time to bring them back into our orbit.
But I personally love having two, I love hearing them laugh and play, I like holding two little hands when we go out, I like their different personalities and the fact they do love each other is very touching to see.
My gut feeling is things will always be 'complex' between them, and we will need to be very empathetic to how we can help them understand each other when things are difficult.
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Post by scaredycats on Aug 2, 2015 20:20:53 GMT
DH and I were very sure from the start that we wanted to have only one LO (to start with), as then we could focus totally on their needs without any competition from another LO and we'd hopefully gain confidence as first-time parents (as well as not having to consider trauma bonds etc.). It's working well for us and we'll consider adopting another LO in the next few years.... Our SW was very clear with us that it would not be our decision as to whether a sibling group was kept together or not (and that the decision would be made by the assessing authority), and so we mustn't think "oh, we'd better take a sibling group or they may be split up" or something along those lines, if you know what I mean.
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Post by leo on Aug 2, 2015 21:22:47 GMT
Well, I think that in over four years there's not been a single day when I haven't sacrificed one child's needs for the sake of the other child's needs.
I only found out after placement that there were several recommendations to separate my two - despite the official clinical psychology report stating they should stay together (but that was nearly two years old when I read it). If they had been separated when they went into care for the final time then it could possibly have worked for them; by the time of placement I think it would have been something they wouldn't have recovered from - so despite their trauma bond and all the other difficulties, the right thing now is for them to stay together (but with a lot of separation!)
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Post by chotimonkey on Aug 7, 2015 21:59:02 GMT
Ours were placed individually
Squirrel at 16 months Howler 5 months lAter at 8 months George a year and a bit later at 10 months
I don't know yet how things will unfold, but I think placing them separately has helped, and we try really hard to organise things so all children have their own ' special time' we also come from a culture and family that sees child raising as a community effort so have a lot of support with giving children individual attention.
At the moment they are v beneficial for each other, they haven't got a trauma bond, and it seems to be going ok so far...
Having said that tho, yhree is a tricky number and I always feel that my lovely bit tricky howler has missed the time squirrel had before she was placed (both dh and I were at home with her for 6 months and she had our undivided attention and wonder) and the attention george will get next year when she starts school and he is my only small left at home!
Sometimes I also think that having grown up with the same age difference between my sibs as my children have (27 months between 3) is helpful, because what others might find loud and active and crazily full on, feels kind of normal for me.
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sunny
New Member
Single Adopter
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Post by sunny on Aug 9, 2015 17:33:10 GMT
I am 9 month into my adoption journey. I adopted siblings and I know it was talked about splitting them up at one point but decided it was best to place them together. They get along very well yes they have arguments sometimes mainly because the elder one can be very dominant. Don't get me wrong the placement has brought many problems and issues and still does on a daily basis but so does parenting birth children. I have just joined this forum and already have spent hours reading posts and finding it all so interesting and helpful. There has not been a day since placement that my children don't amaze me they are growing in so many ways.I'm sure we will have hurdles to cross in the future many in fact but for now life is just perfect.
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