sunnysky
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Post by sunnysky on Jul 21, 2014 13:43:20 GMT
Feel totally worn out with DS.
He can't cope living on his own but can't live at home because he is abusive/violent.
Undiagnosed mental health issues - has appointment coming up but probably won't go to it.
I am the only one currently supporting him (no professionals/family left in his life).
It's exhausting and I worry constantly about him (even though he, at times, abuses me - what on earth is all that about??? I am not a doormat in general life but am with him).
He blames me for everything that happens to him that he doesn't like - can twist anything to be my fault.
Yet I still go back for more - mostly because I know I'd feel even worse than I feel now if he was homeless again and currently hanging on to his home with a fine thread.
Wish I could prioritise myself but find that so hard to do. Just want him to be happy and then I would feel happy (does that even make sense?)
I believe his violence/abuse comes from his mental health problems - but according to him he doesn't have mental health problems.
I know I should look after myself but how do I do this?
We just seem to lurch from one disaster to another - involving dogs/benefits/housing - when will it all end?
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Post by mayan on Jul 21, 2014 16:58:56 GMT
Hugs sunny sorry things are still so difficult with your ds.
It is so hard when you know they are vulnerable but just keep biting the hand so as to speak. Our DS used to say the problem was me not of his own making so I stepped back a bit which helped him see things a bit better.
Despite wearing myself to a frazzle trying to advocate for him and then with him for years, he walked/ran away from a decent rental flat (having accrued huge debts for a variety of things) and a good job for some pretty dire places before landing up at his BM's where he has been for two years nearly albeit he is working and doing well on that front unlike the rest of them). He has survived some pretty horrendous times and whilst I still have nightmares about the situations he has been in and the things I have witnessed - it's like water off a ducks back to him - (somewhere deep inside I expect it isn't but that's how he presents) and he has survived despite these horrendous times - his skills in manipulation, his charm and not least intelligence have extricated him from countless situations that I refused to step in and get involved with. He is soon back on his feet again one way or another believe you me - even when he has hit bottom someone eventually has given him a hand up and he has repaid them with ingratitude at the very least!
For my own health I cannot get too involved now - we boundary things with him very carefully for all of our sakes - even a very positive family event recently just caused so much regression for our DD that we are having to think about how to ameliorate this for the next time. He visits but it can be erratic so none of it is normal even when it is good and living with that unpredictability takes a toll - a constant war of attrition on their part if one decides to step onto the field that is so we limit it's impact by only doing positive contact - it's not how it should be, it's not what we really want but it's the best compromise that meets all our needs and allows us and particularly I would say dd and I to stay emotionally as strong as possible under the circumstances.
I would dearly love for my DS to be happy too - I know he isn't from the things he says and the regrets he has already but no matter he has made his choices albeit based on his own somewhat warped perceptions - but then don't we all in some way? He was happy for a long time making my life absolute hell too - so his idea of happy is not one we share but we can be happy together in our way for the short periods we do spend together and that in my book is a long way better than nothing given what we have come through.
If you let them for some of our children they will make us their whipping post for all the troubles in their life or seek to punish you by making you witness their trials - even my DD who lives with us will do this to some extent unless we robustly guard against her occasional manipulations and ensure we are stepped back and she is the one making choices and there are always choices! For some it just is their default position to a lesser or greater extent depending on their resilience.
It really is so hard to see them go through this especially when some of our children grow into adults who see themselves as victims - yet others use their situations to stay in a pattern whereby they actually become the emotional or physical abusers and not just of themselves - if they won't take help (and my DS wouldn't either) then you are left with a stark choice to carry on as you are and know how things will continue or to step back perhaps gradually so they can take responsibility and make choices that you can't be blamed for.
It's the only way you can hope for a different situation than the one you have right now- there is no guarantee it will be better in fact it could be worse or a lot worse but they will be masters of their fate and you can work on being on the sidelines, recovering p, healing gradually and cheering them on or commiserating as necessary as parents inevitably do - but with a lot less trauma in your life - life will no doubt continue to be a challenge for them and by default for us but we can be stronger and more able to be that constant for them rather than their scapegoat.
Stepping back from their cauldron of chaos is just one day at a time when you have been brought so low - hour by hour just like cold turkey - it is not abandonment it is empowerment for your DS and for you and the rest of your family.
It can end Sunny and there can be a new beginning to something strange and different that will take strength you may not feel you have - they want you to stay locked in to the current situation so of course will seek to manipulate and retain the status quo but you are the parent and the are still the child and don't know what they need so need you to lead them in a different dance.
Be strong my friend, you may not be able to change the situation but you can change your response to it!
I know in my heart just how desperately you want things to be better as we all do for our children and how torn we are when they suffer so even small changes will give you some breathing and most importantly healing time - one step one hour one day and maybe you will both be in a different place altogether than where you are both locked in now.
Sending much love and strength
M xx
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 18:57:59 GMT
Wow Mayan - what a reply.
I wish I could bottle your wisdom - ever think of becoming a therapist?
You'd be brilliant because you've lived it and you get it.
Think I may just copy your post to a word document, so I can read it over and over - it is fab advice!
Sorry Sunnysky I can't add anything to Mayans advice except hugs xx - I am about 10 years behind you in this.
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Post by lilyofthevalley on Jul 21, 2014 19:39:04 GMT
Hi sunnysky
Have you ever considered having counselling for yourself? I have a friend whose birth son became a drug addict and he ruined her life in every way for many years. She eventually had counselling to help her make some very tough decisions. He was incapable of changing and she had pretty much taken on a role of co-dependency with him. He continued to fleece her financially and she lived in a state of constant anxiety about their situation. The therapist helped her to make the tough decision to move away from him, moving from Scotland to England to be near her daughter. He then HAD to cope on his own. The counselling really helped her.
Lily x
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Post by peartree on Jul 21, 2014 21:54:16 GMT
Sunny sky, I really do feel for you in this
In honesty I've had to face the facts I try and protect my son from. He is in fact a habitual liar who lies to himself first and foremost and it falls from his immediate mouth as soon as breathe. He's a kind sensitive lad and great fun. But the lying is continual and the deceit awful
I know you know about our adoptees, mixed in with some fun great stuff often they lie, cheat, steal, aggressively look out for number one and ideally thump you a goodun in the process. Then you reeling from the thump turn to face them and get a couple of slaps and a kick up the backside and still you turn round offering them another go?
I've had to ask myself- honestly -
1) what do I expect?
2) is my child showing the capacity or willingness to dramatically alter their very antisocial behaviours ?
3) what is my scope to choose different paths / act willingly and alter my behaviours?
I've found that I rated my capacity as a 8 out of 10 and his as a 2. (on a good day!)
Perhaps looking at it from a position of 'battered wives syndrome' is a help? Address your needs before you get to the point you all regret.
Suggest looking seriously at treatment for you- CBT and a course in mindfulness may give you the inner strength to do some of the excellent suggestions of Mayan above
It's utterly horrible. It's not your fault at all. There's a good few charities that assist victims of domestic abuse.
The Hampton trust and others will help with their national contacts.
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Post by moo on Jul 22, 2014 5:45:57 GMT
Hugs to you all xx {{}}
mayan p.t. & sunnysky you all have my thoughts & respect.... you are inspirations who come bouncing back wise , jaded ,but still fighting .... Love to All xxx
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by mayan on Jul 23, 2014 9:14:06 GMT
Ah Tks Jmk but sadly not wise just the experience of bitter tears, much desperation and as Sunny says reaching a point of complete exhaustion - go under or find a way to survive!
Sunnysky do keep posting - one of the worst things about trying to keep going through these challenging times is the way we can become isolated from everyone - even our nearest and dearest which only adds to the burden. For a very long time my dh thought our ds would mature and things would eventually be " normal" - he has slowly had the veil lifted and has had to grieve for that future and now is more accepting of the reality of our situation but that difference came within a whisker close to costing our marriage because of all the tension that was created between us and the fact he simply wasn't the target for the psychological warfare that was going on. There are some hefty dents but we stand united which is important for our ds to see so do beware of their divide and conquer strategy.
When I first joined the boards in the other place many moons ago a lady called Infinity was posting about her son and how she tried to help him and how he just wasn't in the place to take what she kept offering and how it just ground her into the dust despite having a dd who was overcoming her challenges and succeeding. I remember her and her pain in all my dealings with my ds - she truly loved her ds and as his mother wanted to spare him the pain he was enduring by his own choices - there is no magic wand to make things better and no one can see into our hearts to know just how tattered and weary they are or down what paths we will eventually tread - but here is a place where you can rest your burden for a while, clear your head (it has taken me a long time before I could lay down at night and not worry about my ds but he no longer fills my thoughts in that way) , recharge and go forwards even if it is with just one new step in a new direction.
You are not alone , we are all here to lift you up and keep you going towards better days .
Much love and strength to you all
Mxx
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Post by corkwing on Jul 23, 2014 9:53:05 GMT
Hi, Sunnysky -
How are you doing since you posted?
I'm not surprised that you're worn out. Emotionally it's incredibly difficult to live through, isn't it?
My father was an alcoholic. He said that one of the things that stops alcoholics from recovering is being helped. Whilst people bail them out, etc., they are able to keep to their belief that they don't have a problem. According to him, alcoholics need to reach rock bottom (and where that is is different from person to person) before they will accept that they have a problem, accept that they need to change and seek help.
Unfortunately, according to him, family and friends - and other organisations: he said that churches are particularly at fault for this - often offer too much help and support and so stop the alcoholic from reaching their rock bottom.
That could also be true of people with problems other than alcoholism.
You also said, "Just want him to be happy and then I would feel happy". We often think that our happiness comes from external things. That's not actually true. Our happiness can only come from within, from how we respond to situations. Michael Neill writes about this. Might be worth having a look at some of his stuff?
All the best,
Corkwing
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Post by peartree on Jul 23, 2014 10:03:51 GMT
Sunny sky thinking of you Quality support on this thread  We can't fix things But can support one another through stuff xxx |
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Post by fruitcake on Jul 23, 2014 14:17:03 GMT
Hello, Sunnysky. I am in somewhat of a similar situation with my adult son. I will try to share some of the conclusions that I have come to.
I think there does have to be zero tolerance towards any behaviour which is abusive or which puts anyone in the family at risk.
Parents and any other adult sons or daughters do have to maintain a united front to avoid "splitting".
There is an important supportive role for the relatives of people with mental health difficulties but we do need to protect ourselves in the midst of it.
Corkwing's point is well made. You cannot actually change your son. Only he can change himself, if he chooses to do so. He will be less likely to do so if you keep bailing him out.
It helps me to write out a list of what I can do. That list might include such things as a weekly telephone call, a weekly letter, a weekly visit (but not endless telephone calls and visits that disrupt our lives), some basic groceries if he runs out of money but no cash, an annual clothes shopping expedition, a weekly outing where I pay, but no cash - you get the picture. As a Christian I can pray for my son and ask others to pray for him: that feels very effective. Support has to go hand in hand with accountability. I won't shop my son to the police for minor drug use, but I wouldn't hesitate if he were threatening any real harm to anyone else.
Don't let yourself get dragged down into his chaos as then you will be less effective in helping him and lose your own life in the process. It is easier for me to re-focus as I have four dependent children still, whom I have to prioritise, but even without that, your example of a life lived well can be the most powerful gift you could give your son.
I did a course of CBT last year and find that I can still dig into the useful insights and skills I developed on it. My downs don't last as long and I can pick myself up better.
It is terribly hard because the little child whom we conscientiously re-parented with therapeutic techniques and loved beyond reason seems still to be there in front of us. But he is an adult now and that does make it different.
But not easy!
Hugs Sunnysky and know that many of us have been there, done that and got the T shirt. It isn't your fault and in fact you have done a great job in managing two very difficult young men in your life. Their lives might not seem any better than if you hadn't adopted them, but they are immeasurably better for being loved.
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sunnysky
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Post by sunnysky on Jul 25, 2014 8:04:24 GMT
Thank you all so much for your replies. It means such a lot.
Today I am really struggling. I am going to see the doctor in an hour's time. I was on anti-depressants but came off them some weeks ago but wonder if I need them again. I really can't cope at the moment.
There seems to be so many things to deal with with ds and I know I shouldn't be dealing with them I should leave him to sort them but he can't and then if he messes up I have the worry of him for instance being homeless (been there before and it was a nightmare to live with).
He has the chance of a job but I feel sure he will mess it up. I am then worrying that if he does he will lose his benefits. He is currently on ESA because of his anxiety. Will he get back on ESA or will he lose his benefits if the job doesn't work out? His mental health is preventing so much but he doesn't realise he has mental health problems it's everyone else who has the problems according to him.
yesterday he went out and bought yet another phone contract so he now has 2 and he can't even afford the one he has. He will have bank charges to deal with (which he can't pay) so all his money will go on bank charges. There is so much more I won't even bore you with the details. Today I woke up feeling sick so knew I had to go to the doctor or I will go under with all this. I realise dh can't help me with this as ds attacked him but it just feels so much to deal with. Trouble is he won't accept support from agencies and if he gets it he ruins it for himself.
I know I need to back off but how do I do that and feel ok doing that especially if he loses his accommodation. Sorry to moan like this. I will take the advice given I promise as I know I have to change my way of dealing with things or things are not going to change.
Thank you all my lovely friends xxxx |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 8:28:13 GMT
Hugs to you Sunnysky.
Think a trip to the GP is a good idea. Maybe ask about some counselling too, it really does help to off load to someone outside of the family and to have someone unbiased listen to you.
We're here if you need us and are thinking of you. xx
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Post by mayan on Jul 25, 2014 8:36:03 GMT
Glad you have managed to post Sunnysky and hope your doctor can help get you back on form again so that you can start to see the wood for the trees.
Thinking of you and sending much love and strength.
Mxx
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Post by damson on Jul 25, 2014 15:27:45 GMT
{{{{Sunny sky}}}}
Wishing you a little peace and a good night's sleep, so tomorrow is a better day.
And then the fortitude to re-arrange your mental furniture, and live your life as you want to, not as he wants you to.
xxx D
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Post by fruitcake on Jul 25, 2014 17:15:35 GMT
A trip to the G.P. and some form of counselling sounds right. A good counsellor could help you disentangle what you can reasonably do for your son without unacceptable cost to yourself and what you might have to let go. For example, if he gets into debt that could be a blessing in disguise as then his credit rating might prevent the possibility of future loans, 'phone contracts, etc. It sounds very hard.
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Post by peartree on Jul 25, 2014 22:18:37 GMT
Like you in a way sunny sky I've had to learn to back off and it's not natural
But for me it's been a process
And still is a prices of grieving and letting things go.
Ive had counselling in the past
Adoption counselling from a PAC registered person
Which helped and then couples counselling with mr pt to help with the loss of blossom when she moved and was up to her most awful awful things
I am trying to do some mindfulness as the bits I have done really seen to help work through the subconscious pain worry and fears that enable me to think clearly and be more measured
From what I understand, my son would gleefully head for rock bottom and is very adept at getting 'rescuers' in such situations but then lies and they drop him and sometimes are then abusive and that drops him lower.
He cannot learn from being rock bottom like others might as he deep down thinks he deserves that life in some ways- even after all these looooong years.
So like you I do work very hard indeed at trying to prevent him going that low as understandably you would like a different sort of life for him.
But can you just think for a minute what kind of example you are giving about reliance?
I think about this a lot.
I'm there supporting partridge as much as I can to get a job, move on but for a variety of reasons he's not got a job. Have in the end explained he needs to go on job seekers at least because his keep is huge....
To my surprise he's agreed.
But it's all me and mr pt lead and supported in the round by family mainly. He needs vast cavernous support.
I've looked up the princes trust today and sent partridge an email about them, my dad has agreed to take him into the city to see if they can offer any support,
There's a few charities like larche, emmaus, and other projects that offer support to yp, would you consider helping him access this sort of project and handing over some of YOur carer responsibility and just being his mum?
I know it's hard.
Sending hugs xx
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sunnysky
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Post by sunnysky on Aug 1, 2014 8:33:20 GMT
This is where I am today - I say today because could feel different tomorrow and don't want to tempt fate.
Today I feel good. Think tablets are kicking in (perhaps because I hadn't been off them too long so re-taking has got them into my system faster??? or psychological who knows).
Doctor came to see me and has speeded up therapy and I start in a week's time (potentially CBT which I think sounds right for me).
Trying to say no to DS when it's something he can manage himself and last night DH actually stepped in to do something for him which meant I didn't have to (don't like asking him as he was the victim in one of DS's violent rages).
Did not worry all night, do not have sick feeling in stomach and can eat again. I can, as Mayan puts it, see the wood for the trees for now.
When another major crisis comes along (there is one looming involving a dog or rather two dogs!!!!) will I cope? I really don't know but hopefully I will.
He has actually made it to his job (just started a small job but I am not breaking out he champagne yet - he's only going because I bribed him so it could end any time) - note to self must stop bribing him to do things he needs to do things because he wants to.
Trying not to think about the state of his flat (multiple dogs doesn't help) I did go in and try to help him clean (well actually he sat and watched as I started to clean) and realised I did not know where to start it is that bad.
As for support - wish I could find someone to support him but he manages to frighten them all off (he doesn't need support as he keeps telling me yet he constantly rings me to help with his washing, take him shopping, sort out bus times, ring him to get him up for work etc etc etc).
After saying all this what if he just cannot manage without me? What if he loses his job, loses his flat? You see not quite got there yet.
Thank you to all my lovely friends on here - you understand.
It was also lovely to speak to the therapist who is going to help me with the CBT and when I told him about my sons he said "they will have attachment problems" and started to talk about attachment. Yippee - someone who also understands.
I seem to be surrounded in my personal life by people who don't understand and just think my boys are bad. They say I shouldn't make excuses for them but it's not excuses it's reasons (that's the way I see it but am I right?)
Sorry for waffle hope I don't sound too manic just writing as I'm thinking rather than thinking before I write.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 8:47:56 GMT
Thanks for the update Sunnysky. You sound sooooo much more positive which is great. So pleased that things are looking brighter for you. Your Dr. came out to see you - my goodness I didn't think they ever did that these days!  Soooo glad you are getting some counselling and from someone who "gets attachment" that will be soooo helpful to you. Regarding the cleaning and helping out with DS, how about if you agreed you'd visit say once a month to "help him" keep the place in a reasonable order so that it doesn't get too out of hand. You don't want to be going round there every week, but once a month maybe just to keep an eye on things? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 17:36:11 GMT
Hi Sunnysky, this is my first attempt at posting here!!
When I read your post, it was as if you were talking about my DD, she is also on a self destruct course. DD is 16 and recently moved into supported lodgings, long story short, the host has just given her notice: disappearing, getting drunk/stoned, not answering mobile, going out at 2,3,4am mixing with goodness knows who, police involvement etc etc.!
DD has decided she wants nothing more to do with us as I was really firm when she asked to move back home. I felt terrible but knew that we could not go back to how it was. We would all be dragged into her World and I would have another nervous breakdown.
I really feel for you as you sound a really kind sensitive person, however I agree with others that you have to put yourself first, and look after your health, someone asked me recently what would DD do if I suddenly dropped dead of a heart attack??? She thought about it for 1 second and said, she would survive and move on!!!!!
Best of luck with the counselling, I too need to access counselling, you have motivated me to contact Drs tomorrow.
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Post by damson on Aug 18, 2014 21:42:02 GMT
Hi MMM
welcome on board, amongst the fellow travellers.
I hope your GP is helpful, and you do not have to wait too long for counselling.
D
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