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Update
Jul 9, 2014 0:11:47 GMT
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Post by peartree on Jul 9, 2014 0:11:47 GMT
For those who aren't aware things with our young man have plummeted below really what we thought possible
He's created so many lies and deceptive patterns saying some awful, dreadful things particularly about me.
His gf also has a range of prbs but nothing covers what's been done & said we have had to have police involved and it's been BAD
My dear parents have helped us as best they can, mum took me and our lad to see gf's parents to 'clear the air'and partridge did admit to them he had lied continually really. He's been to see the gp and asked for mr pt's support and he is staying home and is contrite & trying clearly to put things together.
We'd started trying to help him plan a successful move into some sort of supported accommodation and then we found all this. Frankly friends- it's utter poison- completely destructive hideously painful and if one more person tries to say it's teenage angst I may not be responsible for my actions.
I feel right now that he can be trusted in some things but ultimately is not going to suddenly preferring truth and honesty.
My expectation is higher than he's got the capacity to manage. The sheer level that things got to this time threatened the whole family here so mr pt and I will help him as much as we can to do a managed move from home.
Blossom hit rock bottom and although er 'blossomy' she's much more stable, perhaps partridge may have some capacity for this?
My faith, that has held me solidly throughout has really struggled this time. 'Dark night of the soul' and all that.
Just really appreciate those POTATO groupers who have been instrumental in our support, good grief we've needed it.
(Btw- PAS say 19 is past their remit is this true?)
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 5:52:46 GMT
Post by daffin on Jul 9, 2014 5:52:46 GMT
So sorry. I can't really say more than that as I have no experience of older (adopted) children. Good luck with the next days and weeks, and I hope that the dark nights of the soul can be behind you now as you all find time to heal.
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 6:52:47 GMT
Post by moo on Jul 9, 2014 6:52:47 GMT
Hugs Pear tree.... Been thinking about you & mr pear tree....
So so sad to read..... You deffo no no not ever do you deserve any of this.... Has there been a trigger or start point for any of this....
My goodness if it has made you Q your faith then this is clearly life altering & truly the direst of desolate times ( & what hope for the rest of us tbh... ) Hugs Hugs & more hugs to you all {{{}}}.... Hats off to you potatoes so thrilled that they are there for you p.t. We are all so blessed to have found each other xxxxx
So pleased partridge has 'confessed' his lies to gf mother..... This must be so tuff/ impossible to move on frm..... My heart goes out to you all.....
Hugs xxxxx stay strong xxxx skweeze pip Xtra hard xxxx sending you more tea {{}}xx
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by nancydanfan on Jul 9, 2014 7:32:41 GMT
So sorry to hear what you have been through.Dd brought out the big guns on our family lies wise and it has been frightening to see how "professionals" can take things down a route that ordinary commonsense people recognise as lies in a short space of time.
This "we will always believe the child" concept results in children being helped to burn their bridges with their families by SS and the police.A lot of our systems are laughable and a waste of tax payers money.
You can come through this.We are coming through this.I am learning that trying to understand why is sometimes a waste of time.I am glad your son did confess his lies.Our dd still hasn't. The hard part is being rightly furious at the harm she has caused to so many yet the love and worry I have for her.
I find the isolation difficult at times.I cannot tell people the full story but that limits the support I need.I am sure I am not the only one going through this.No "professionals are there to pick up the pieces.
Hubby and I are stronger than ever.You either sink or swim.Thank God we didn't drown. Big hug to you x
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 9:11:20 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 9:11:20 GMT
Oh no PT I am sooooo saddened to read this.
Not making any excuses for Partridge, but do you think it could be him seeing you helping him to move on to independant living as a rejection of him, that you want rid of him etc?
I, you and everyone else knows this is bonkers, but I am trying to get inside his head and see how he might be perceiving this, hence him transfering his affections to GF's mum etc?
I am sooooo glad he admitted to his lies, but the hurt remains, that he could do this to you after all these years. I do think it is time to learn to let go of him a bit. No one could have done more for him than you and Mr. PT, but as Toko says, maybe you can rebuild a different kind of relationship with him with a little distance between you. He needs to grow up a bit and learn to stand on his own two feet and maybe a bit of distance might help with that. He may realise how much you and Mr. PT did for him and he might return to you a stronger person for it.
We all know from reading the boards that a lot of adopted children seem to grow up around 23/24 as they are emotionally behind their peers who tend to do this around 18. Perhaps supported living with counselling etc could help him rebuild a new realtionship with you all. Remember you have Pip to take into consideration too. You need to be able to focus on her too.
It is sooooo hard I know. Attachment works both ways and sometimes us adopters need to learn to de-tach ourselves a bit in order to survive. I am presently trying to learn this myself.
Massive hugs to you and Mr. PT xx
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 9:19:57 GMT
Post by lilyofthevalley on Jul 9, 2014 9:19:57 GMT
So sorry you are going through this. I would definitely pursue the supported accommodation route. Things can improve in later years. I had a dreadful time with my two when they were teenagers. Thinking of you.
Lily x
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 12:02:38 GMT
Post by peartree on Jul 9, 2014 12:02:38 GMT
The moving on thing is because apparently one of his 'hidden plans' was to get pay packet number 1 and move out.
So we've tried to explain that flats and cars etc cost ££ and you have to pay for lots of things to do this. It was all part of the plans with gf, the ones we knew nothing about
He's been saying a lot of very damaging things but setting up dates with gf and then not going and saying I'd baracaded him in..... Just so awful
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 13:57:16 GMT
Post by kizim on Jul 9, 2014 13:57:16 GMT
Oh Pear Tree and just when you thought some progress was being made...altho maybe it still is. Like enigma he is trying to achieve independence but is only able to begin the process by transferring dependency elsewhere.
Ä° know the lies and secret lives cut you to the quick as they do me.
Ä° have no real advice as Ä°m going thru a similar situation...but you can try to protect him again and convince him with your logic....or you can let him go.
Keep your faith
xx
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 14:17:39 GMT
Post by shadow on Jul 9, 2014 14:17:39 GMT
horrible for you - what were you working on supported living wise before all this kicked off? is some of it like the Holly VG talk said, when they are planning leaving home they have to re enact the catastrophic, chaotic way they moved from BF?
Hope there is a good facility for him - does the autistic society have anywhere suitable?
what a nightmare for you - hope blossoms crisis is being sorted too
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 14:55:23 GMT
Post by justbserene11 on Jul 9, 2014 14:55:23 GMT
Sending my love to the orchard....how very very sad
i do agree what shadow and Madrid have said.....he is re enacting the chaos that he experienced as a young child.
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Post by littlemisscheerful on Jul 9, 2014 15:03:13 GMT
www.lcs-partnerships.co.uk/PT, DOn't know if this org might be able to help? They say they support teens leaving FC, but their remit may be broader than that? Offer 24/7 support to yp, sort rent - don't know how they are funded. Might be worth looking at?
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Post by mayan on Jul 9, 2014 15:14:43 GMT
Gentle hugs PT - this detaching lark is a hellish time and so sorry you are being put through so torrid a time of it. They will do what they do but you must stay well so look after yourselves and Pip.
Thinking of you all.
Mxx
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 17:04:31 GMT
Post by pingu on Jul 9, 2014 17:04:31 GMT
Praying for you Pear Tree, and remember, the shadow is the light coming from the other side of the cross. Take care
pingu
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 19:41:01 GMT
Post by Janie2 on Jul 9, 2014 19:41:01 GMT
So sorry to read this Peartree. Maybe things will settle in time? If not you must look at supported housing. You have little Pip to concentrate on, who must bring you great joy. I do hope Partridge will reflect on his behaviour and stop being destuctive to his family. Take care Spring xx
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Post by milly on Jul 9, 2014 20:49:34 GMT
Sorry to hear things are so stuff - deceit is so very hard to deal with and to square with love / respect - but underneath the bravado I am sure it is there (from P's point of view). Hoping you get through this and find a solution to suit you all.
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Update
Jul 9, 2014 20:58:23 GMT
Post by damson on Jul 9, 2014 20:58:23 GMT
I am so sorry to hear it has come to this. I will pray steadily for constructive help to materialise. My experience is that connections matter, and that it comes down to who knows who, who thinks of something cunning.
If what follows is teaching you to suck eggs, just ignore it. Where I live, Partridge would be one of those vulnerable adults who sort of falls between stools. He is too bright for LD services, and his mental health isn't appalling enough to qualify under Mental Health. (The supported living for people in transition from MH establisments might be particularly frightening.) If he has an AS diagnosis, then it may be that he fits within the LD/ autism net, and some kind of supportive living can be winkled out of LD services. The alternative is that he becomes homeless (although I see that Step by Step consider young people facing adversity.) PAS are very unlikely to have the resources to supply a support worker. No wonder they are telling you he's outside their age limit. Are you having any luck with the adult teams in social care?
xxx D
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Update
Jul 11, 2014 8:56:58 GMT
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Post by peartree on Jul 11, 2014 8:56:58 GMT
Partridge has seen the gp who says his lying is 'a bad habit' and referred for counselling The counselling part is good as they take his notes from Camhs and go from there referring on as needs dictate
Madrids link to the NAS has been very helpful and he's going to use the model letter to request an assessment in adult team I've asked post adoption to refer him to adult services and they've baulked at that
Basic support accessing records is what they do post 18 apparently
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Update
Jul 11, 2014 17:40:12 GMT
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Post by damson on Jul 11, 2014 17:40:12 GMT
I hope the help materialises soon. Wouldn't it be nice if the lying were a curable bad habit!
Have you checked out supportive living providers in your area? It's possible the providers can also help him through the thickets of social care. I hope that there is a vacancy in a good S.L. place and he can fit in with the other residents.
And that the dark clouds will lift from you family. xxx D
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Post by janpan on Jul 12, 2014 13:44:07 GMT
Pear Tree, I have no answers as my pair aren't yet at that stage but you have been such an inspiration and so full of advice and wise thoughts that I wanted to send my warm thoughts. What I do know is that as you spend time reflecting on this situation, you will come to your own answers to make the right decisions for your particular situation. Your wisdom and honesty will stand by you and once this turmoil has settled, you will recognise all the good you have done even in this seemingly impossible time.
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Update
Jul 16, 2014 12:17:40 GMT
Post by sivier on Jul 16, 2014 12:17:40 GMT
I am woefully ill-equipped to offer any advice on this PT, but wanted to send warmest thoughts to you along with a very big orchard-sized hug. xx
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Post by bagpuss72 on Jul 17, 2014 1:22:18 GMT
Sorry to read things have got so bad Peartree.
The self destructive behaviour and toxic relationships seems to be hard wired into so many of our young adults. I hope things improve for you all soon and Partridge gets some appropriate support to take the pressure off you.
Take care x
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Update
Jul 17, 2014 5:56:15 GMT
Post by moo on Jul 17, 2014 5:56:15 GMT
Hugs P.T. {{{}}}...
Thinking of you.... Sending you many hugs & positive supporting vibes...
xx. moo. Xx
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Post by peartree on Jul 17, 2014 7:36:08 GMT
Wanted to say that partridge is genuinely trying. He's struggling with the not lying bit As think maybe the gp was partly right as he's got a very destructive habit. He has an appointment with the speaking counselling people in the second week of august.
It's no good my friends I just love him We are going to try.
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Post by mayan on Jul 17, 2014 15:18:12 GMT
Hugs, hugs and extra hugs PT!
When DS lived with us we kind of took the pressure off by buying a BS buzzer (in fact we had two - one for DD which had Panic written on it), if things were embellishments Walter Mitty style we would press the button and leave it at that which broke the confrontation and changed the mood - he hated it to start with because he wanted to provoke an argument and keep us engaged in getting to the truth so very draining! If it was a whopper or something we had to get to the bottom of we just got to the point where we calmly said we don't think that's so and we'll have to assume that you're struggling to tell us what really has happened. For now we'll do xyz until we have a clearer picture. It just saved energy for other things. Sadly our DS still does lie and embellish - I kept the BS buzzer and it has become a family joke (without shaming him - DD also had her panic button which became similar) and both used to love pressing each others buttons literally and winding each other up but more in a fun than malicious way. I don't need them any more - (well the panic one is coming in handy actually for our middle FC at the moment) - but are referred to on occasion and we are at the point of DS now being in the position of "knowing" we know when he is embellishing or downright lying (a variety of reasons at times but most often to keep a wall of protection and confusion around himself to cover his vulnerabilities or his fumbling efforts to fit in with peers or what he might think he should be doing) even as the words tumble out of his mouth and we can challenge him or say yeah right pull the other one...without it developing into a confrontation.
I really struggled with his lying because it made me feel I couldn't trust him (I still can't entirely) but also because it made me and DH too feel horribly vulnerable especially after having to deal with allegations etc which gnaws away and creates anxieties about what will happen next. Even today neither of those feelings have gone away for DH or myself but I guess we have both reframed his need to lie (a lot less so now albeit we have some doozies from time to time) as one of his survival skills. At nearly 28 it isn't something we are going to change and as I have written elsewhere we know folk who use exactly the same strategy arising from their own insecurities and early life experiences (not adopted) and have sort of reframed it. It is simply something he needs to do to function, we limit the fallout - now admittedly more easily but challenge when necessary in a non confrontational way but accept it is one of his "things" (having a new phone every time he visits - a very expensive habit, new white trainers etc etc) as much as it is other people we have come across. We have had visits when we haven't had a single porkie depending on how things are going for him - at other times he couldn't even tell us where he was living "I don't know my address" when on the phone...
It's so sad, horrible, frustrating, worrying and sometimes just leaves you with a sickening feeling in the pit of your stomach but it can be just part of their vulnerability and strategy to just frantically cover up which takes me back to feeling sad all over again. It may be an entrenched behaviour as it has become with our DS, but there are ways to learn to live with it as we learn to live with other fragilities in those around us or indeed ourselves and, in time, whilst the behaviour may not change - the situation may - and then the need for the behaviour might just lessen or ameliorate to a point of liveability.
I guess in my ramble PT I am just trying to say I understand but also to encourage you not to despair although things may feel pretty desperate and worrying right now. Much love and strength
Mxx
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Post by peartree on Jul 20, 2014 1:53:38 GMT
He's been very hard work today Lots of gobby bravado and chippy about pretty much everything
Trying to get him to apply for benefit as supporting him is expensive and with a few quid mowing lawns he's not got enough to pay keep
Anyway Holding on with our enormous 3 yr old with his verbal diatribes may take some earplugs and a polite smile or two but I'm going to attempt to believe (pure faith in action this) that his capacity to be an adult is growing at this time and were holding on as best we can
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Update
Jul 21, 2014 0:06:54 GMT
Post by fruitcake on Jul 21, 2014 0:06:54 GMT
I admire your resilience so much. Re post adoption, even if they can't help with a worker, they have a pot of money. I got a grant for one of mine until age 21, in her case for education. No he isn't too old for their help and if there is anything you want for him that requires funding I would pressure them for that. Can you bottle your hope and optimism and send me some?!
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