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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 14:16:31 GMT
Hi We are due to have our 4.5 year old son home by early November 2013 providing all goes to plan with MP etc  An adopter just told me that since the child is initially a LAC until the AO comes through I should get "Fostering" type payments once he lives with us. SW has not told me anything like that so did any of you get anything like that when your child was first with you? Were you able to claim child benefit (if your income was in the eligible level) from the moment your child moved in with you even though they were still counted as LAC at that point? (as far as I know if a person can claim child benefit they can also apply for child tax credit and our basis for being able to feed and clothe our child to be was on the understanding that we will be able to claim child benefit for him from the outset plus apply for child tax credit but with this person telling me that he is not counted as part of our household until the AO comes through I am wondering if we can claim CB and CTC from the outset and if not, and if there is no "fostering allowance" and no "adoption allowance that we know of" then I am wondering where the money is supposed to come from up until the AO to make sure he is clothed and fed. Thanks |
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Post by annie70 on Sept 17, 2013 14:42:34 GMT
Hi Spideress - I am afraid I can't help with answers although I hope someone can as I hope to be in the same situation soon... I was also wondering what you are doing about school? Assume your LO will be due to go into reception this year and I wondered how much you had done to find a place? If all goes well for us our LO will need to go into year 2 and I know that LAC get preferential treatment for places but all the decent (smaller, more nurturing) schools near us seem to be full up... Sorry to hijack - hope you don't mind  Ax |
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Post by kstar on Sept 17, 2013 14:54:50 GMT
No payments are automatic I am afraid - adoption allowance is at the discretion of the placing authority. Fight for it by all means, but I got nothing for my 6 yo which is why I am having to go back to work much sooner than I would like. I have appealed mine but it is still being considered (four months into placement).
You can claim child benefit - fill in the forms as soon as your child is placed and send them off. It takes a few weeks to process but you get it backdated to placement day. I have no idea about child tax credits as I am not eligible.
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Post by bop on Sept 17, 2013 15:04:16 GMT
We did get fostering allowances for our three initially but that was because we were approved as foster carers - we met them as their respite foster carers. After the legal adoption, we were entitled to adoption allowances (set at the same level minus child benefit), but they are means tested and DHs salary was too high.
If the children are eligible for adoption allowances it will be in your matching approval letter - generally it is only available for hard to place kids eg sibling groups, older kids, disabilities etc.
I thought child benefit was only from the legal adoption date, or maybe that was because legally we were foster carers before then?
Bop
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 15:25:50 GMT
Hi Spideress - I am afraid I can't help with answers although I hope someone can as I hope to be in the same situation soon... I was also wondering what you are doing about school? Assume your LO will be due to go into reception this year and I wondered how much you had done to find a place? If all goes well for us our LO will need to go into year 2 and I know that LAC get preferential treatment for places but all the decent (smaller, more nurturing) schools near us seem to be full up... Sorry to hijack - hope you don't mind Ax Hi When we showed an interest in him in July 2013 I asked re: school as we were about 2 weeks before all the schools closed down. SW said I should inquire to the schools since they were about to close down. In my ignorance I thought that if I want to book a hotel I phone the hotel so if I want to get my potential son in a school I phone the school.......so I phoned the school that would be our first choice. I was told the headmistress (the job has a different title now but it still meant headmistress) would phone me back which she did and she said "who are you?". That kinda stumped me at first as I thought well........I am a daughter, a wife, a sister an ex-employee etc etc what do you mean who am I? until it dawned on me she meant in relation to the child. So I said "I will be his adoptive mother" and she said "oh, parents are not allowed to phone the school directly you have to go through the council". I didn't know what "going through the council" meant as such.......I understand you have to pick a school in your council area and that is what I thought I had done. She said that now a days parents have to give a list of their 3 choices of schools to the council (special phone number) and they pick which one the child can get into (baring in mind that LAC should get priority on a waiting list). I therefore phoned the number for the council that she gave me and that was a waste of time too since they told me I have to fill in a special form for LAC and the form asked for his name, DOB, address etc all of which we are not yet allowed to disclose nor did I know which address would "count" as such anyway. I got the impression it was something I was not supposed to be or "allowed" to be doing and its something the LA should be doing since he is in their care at present. I reported it all back to SW and as it stands now their school people are speaking to the school people at our LA and they have 20 days from start of term in Sept to get him sorted out with a local school. My 3 preference schools have been given to them but we have no idea at present how far along it has all got. In the meantime they decided to start him at school in his LA so he will complete most if not all the first half term there then be taken away completely as he is moved into our area and have to start all over again at a brand new school. His SW was oppose to him starting in Sept as its just more loss and she had arranged for him to stay on at nursery for a few more weeks but some other SW over-ruled her and it was decided they thought it was in his best interest to start school there. I am a bit surprised they are only planning on giving him two weeks full time home with us before putting him into one of our schools. I'd have thought they would given him until the new year with us and started him in January 2014 at one of our schools. |
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 15:28:46 GMT
No payments are automatic I am afraid - adoption allowance is at the discretion of the placing authority. Fight for it by all means, but I got nothing for my 6 yo which is why I am having to go back to work much sooner than I would like. I have appealed mine but it is still being considered (four months into placement). You can claim child benefit - fill in the forms as soon as your child is placed and send them off. It takes a few weeks to process but you get it backdated to placement day. I have no idea about child tax credits as I am not eligible. We have completed forms for adoption allowance based on hubby on low income but have no idea if we will get that and even if we do I am not sure if anything we get counts as "income" and gets deducted from child tax credit/working tax credit anyway so its in on one hand then back out on the other.... I am glad we can potentially claim CB from the outset as I think that will then allow us to access CTC (hubby's income is low enough for us to get CTC and WTC) |
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Post by serrakunda on Sept 17, 2013 15:29:55 GMT
when you were assessed your SW should have done a financial assessment with you to ensure that you could afford to look after a child. I'm sorry but its no different to having a birth child in that respect. And with changes to benefits no one can count on these types of payments any more. Having said that yes you can claim child benefit from the date the child moves in. You can apply for working and child tax credits but what you get depends on your income. The assessment is made on your taxable income for the previous year. If you have had a significant drop in income you can appeal but this takes time, I applied in October, submitted an appeal in January, received an interim payment in March and finally got my backdated payment in July once my taxable income for that year had been confirmed. You don't need to have an adoption order to apply for credits. Adoption allowances are at the discretion of the placing authority and are means tested and are usually only paid for hard to place children such as those with special needs. I am speaking from a privileged position as I do get an adpotion allowance but my son has learning difficulties and autism and this enables me to work part time which is what the placing authority required. If I didnt get an allowance I would just have to go back to work full time.
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 15:32:27 GMT
We did get fostering allowances for our three initially but that was because we were approved as foster carers - we met them as their respite foster carers. After the legal adoption, we were entitled to adoption allowances (set at the same level minus child benefit), but they are means tested and DHs salary was too high. If the children are eligible for adoption allowances it will be in your matching approval letter - generally it is only available for hard to place kids eg sibling groups, older kids, disabilities etc. I thought child benefit was only from the legal adoption date, or maybe that was because legally we were foster carers before then? Bop I can understand that since you were existing FC but since we are not FC and he is not a "foster to adopt" child I was surprised someone suggested to me that we should get a fostering allowance for him. They told us to apply for a means tested adoption allowance since our income is low but although he is a bit "older" in that he is 4.5 I would not think he is classed as "hard to place due to age" and there was no mention of adoption allowance on his CPR or profile. Does the matching approval letter come after matching panel and after the independent agency decision maker has agreed with panel decision? |
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 15:37:53 GMT
when you were assessed your SW should have done a financial assessment with you to ensure that you could afford to look after a child. I'm sorry but its no different to having a birth child in that respect. And with changes to benefits no one can count on these types of payments any more. Having said that yes you can claim child benefit from the date the child moves in. You can apply for working and child tax credits but what you get depends on your income. The assessment is made on your taxable income for the previous year. If you have had a significant drop in income you can appeal but this takes time, I applied in October, submitted an appeal in January, received an interim payment in March and finally got my backdated payment in July once my taxable income for that year had been confirmed. You don't need to have an adoption order to apply for credits. Adoption allowances are at the discretion of the placing authority and are means tested and are usually only paid for hard to place children such as those with special needs. I am speaking from a privileged position as I do get an adpotion allowance but my son has learning difficulties and autism and this enables me to work part time which is what the placing authority required. If I didnt get an allowance I would just have to go back to work full time. We did complete a financial assessment. The LA were keen on me "having a year off" and seemed happy that the only way that could happen was if we got child tax credit along with the working tax credit we already get plus the standard child benefit. If it turns out that the entire benefits system is withdrawn and no one either with birth children or adopted children can get any help what-so-ever then the LA will have to accept at that point I cannot keep to the "stay at home for him" plan and I will have to go back working regardless of whether he can cope with strangers giving him child care or not. By that time he will be home with us so I think the LA will have less "say" in what happens to him than they do at present, in fact, he might even have his AO through by then in which case I suppose they no longer have any "say" at all in how we care for him. |
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Post by serrakunda on Sept 17, 2013 15:48:07 GMT
I'm not unsympathetic, if the SWs want you to stay at home for a year they will have to cough up! You said in later posts that your husband is on low pay, I think the threshold is £24k but as its based on last years income, your income will also be taken into account. As I said you can appeal but it can take time to sort out. Adoption allowances arent counted as taxable income. If you are worried about finances you should be talking to your SW now and get them on board to get an allowance.
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Post by serrakunda on Sept 17, 2013 15:49:40 GMT
sorry omitted to say £24k tax threshold is for tax credits. There is an online calculator you can use to se what you might be eligible for
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Post by kstar on Sept 17, 2013 16:04:28 GMT
I also said that I would take a year off but I just can't afford to without their help and I can't wait around for them to make their decision, so unfortunately hi Jo hi oh, it's back to work I go... I will see how it goes and maybe drop to p/t later, then I should be able to apply for tax credits too.
In terms if school, I chose the school I wanted and went to see it, met with the head etc and then told Starlet's social worker which my school of choice was and she did all the paperwork -this was all done before she moved here. I was also told not to even bother choosing three schools, essentially a school would find it very difficult to turn down a LAC, even if they are technically full. In Starlet's case, it has resulted in a mixed year group class having to be split in half, with the appointment of an extra teacher!
When to put him into school is a difficult question, however, just because SW want him REGISTERED with a school now, doesn't mean they want him to start straight away. At 4, if he wasn't registered with a school, he would be CME (child missing from education) which is illegal. However, it will be left to you to work with the school on a plan to phase a introduction to school. Starlet started in week four with two mornings, the next week three mornings, then all mornings, then stayed for lunch the following week, then til 2.30 the following week. She was more than ready after three weeks and would have gone into full time straight away but I knew she needed bonding time with me and my nearest and dearest as well. I know of other aded children who have needed much longer before being ready to even contemplate school - my SW told me up to six months off completely is normal, and anything up to a year can be justified.
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 16:10:53 GMT
sorry omitted to say £24k tax threshold is for tax credits. There is an online calculator you can use to se what you might be eligible for I have used "entitled to" and "turn to us" etc to get an idea plus spoken to WTC/CTC helpline and the local council re: Council Tax rebate (neither of which are a great deal of help as they cannot "predict" but say phone us when the child is actually there and THEN we will tell you - it's a bit late by then though isn't it  I am aware they use last year's income but if your income in the current tax year drops by more than £2,500 (which ours will once I stop working) they take the current tax year's figures as the calculation. My hubby is on just under £13K pa and at best I might have earned £1,500 this tax year so we are under the (I think £17K) threshold for WTC which is why we get a tiny amount of WTC a month (about £30 a month I think) and according to "entitled to" and "turn to us" we will get the addition of CTC. Since I have earned a tiny bit of money this year our WTC/CTC and Child Benefit are projected to be about £400 pcm and for the 14/15 tax year where I will in theory not earn any money at all it should be £590 pcm. There is no longer any council tax rebate so that means us finding the full £90+ pm which when we first started the adoption process was not in the figures as at that time virtually full council tax rebate would be given. Since I only earn about £300 pm at present I am hoping that on £400 pcm or even £590 pcm that extra little bit of money will be enough to feed/clothe and entertain our son albeit a very frugal lifestyle. |
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Post by annie70 on Sept 17, 2013 16:15:56 GMT
Interesting differences - it's a shame your school wouldn't talk to you spideress - what kstar did seems to be a very sensible way of going about it and what I would hope to do. Our LA have an in-year applications process and also publish all of the places / filled places on their website so you can see who has a place available. They all have to have and follow a Fair Access Protocol (FAP) from the School Admissions Code, published in February 2012. www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/statutory/g00213254/school-admissions-code-2012 LO's SW has suggested that he would be with us in November and would have already started back at old school... and that we should do a phased intro to the new school from January. It is a competitive match but they suggested that we should start to talk to the schools as soon as we know if we are being taken forward - so maybe try and find out the availability of places and contact the admissions person at your council if the head won't speak to you herself. Good luck Ax |
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 16:19:02 GMT
In terms if school, I chose the school I wanted and went to see it, met with the head etc and then told Starlet's social worker which my school of choice was and she did all the paperwork -this was all done before she moved here. I was also told not to even bother choosing three schools, essentially a school would find it very difficult to turn down a LAC, even if they are technically full. In Starlet's case, it has resulted in a mixed year group class having to be split in half, with the appointment of an extra teacher! Impressive! Ours just told me to give them the three and let their schools people sort it out with our schools people. I will be asking for an update when I see SW later this week  We have been told directly though that they are expecting us to actually send him off to school full time after being home will us "full time" for two weeks but once he is actually HERE and we know how he is settling/bonding etc I think they might be more open to "discussing" his parenting with us rather than dictating to us what they expect us to do. |
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 16:23:04 GMT
Interesting differences - it's a shame your school wouldn't talk to you spideress - what kstar did seems to be a very sensible way of going about it and what I would hope to do. Our LA have an in-year applications process and also publish all of the places / filled places on their website so you can see who has a place available. They all have to have and follow a Fair Access Protocol (FAP) from the School Admissions Code, published in February 2012. www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/statutory/g00213254/school-admissions-code-2012 LO's SW has suggested that he would be with us in November and would have already started back at old school... and that we should do a phased intro to the new school from January. It is a competitive match but they suggested that we should start to talk to the schools as soon as we know if we are being taken forward - so maybe try and find out the availability of places and contact the admissions person at your council if the head won't speak to you herself. Good luck Ax I did find out from the initial inquiry to my school of choice (before they told me they cannot deal with me directly) that they were "full" anyway. When I spoke to the council their only option was for me to fill out their special form for LAC to try to get him into a school and since I cannot release his data to anyone plus do not even have half the data the form needs my hands were tied at that point so I am now trusting that they will sort it out for him within the "20 days after term time starts in September" rule. I will be chasing it with our SW when I see her soon to see if there is any update. |
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Post by kstar on Sept 17, 2013 16:54:55 GMT
Yep definitely. Two weeks to settle in at the age of four is ridiculous, sorry! My LOs social worker tried to say the same thing, but my SW thinks three weeks was much too early - after placement in May, my SW wanted me to wait until Sept! I think the important thing is what is right for you. YOU are the ones who have to bond with him, we all know the social workers tend to follow a "formula" approach, they don't seem to take individual circumstances into account. Once you have your school place, just tell them how you think it should be, they can't really argue!
On an aside, if your school of choice is saying they're full and won't even listen to you, perhaps it's not the best choice of school after all!
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Post by spideress on Sept 17, 2013 17:02:57 GMT
Yep definitely. Two weeks to settle in at the age of four is ridiculous, sorry! My LOs social worker tried to say the same thing, but my SW thinks three weeks was much too early - after placement in May, my SW wanted me to wait until Sept! I think the important thing is what is right for you. YOU are the ones who have to bond with him, we all know the social workers tend to follow a "formula" approach, they don't seem to take individual circumstances into account. Once you have your school place, just tell them how you think it should be, they can't really argue! On an aside, if your school of choice is saying they're full and won't even listen to you, perhaps it's not the best choice of school after all! I am just doing the standard nodding and agreeing with SWs at present until he is actually with us at which point I hope we will get more of a say but I don't think it wise to start rocking the boat too much right now. I have no knowledge of "best or worst" schools in our area so just asked some of the local mum's for the "word of mouth" etc and picked our "school of choice" based on what their "word of mouth" said was one of the "best schools" near us. |
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Post by monkey on Sept 18, 2013 15:20:36 GMT
Hello Spideress
I'd really recommend going to the schools, chatting with the Head and the Senco and generally getting a feel for the school.
Your LO is likely to need some support, even if just in the transition to a new school, and you need to be sure that the school of your choice is geared up to provide that.
Also, how nurturing and inclusive are they? If they are keen to make examples out of naughty children or are extremely keen on sticker charts etc you might want to look elsewhere!
Best of luck.
MMx
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Post by swimchic on Sept 18, 2013 19:59:19 GMT
My little one was home for 2.5 weeks before she started school. She is just 4.
HOWEVER, before people think I am really mean, she wanted to go to school, her class has only 5 children in it and she only does mornings. She loves it and can't understand why she can't go at the weekends!! I looked at a few schools before she came home and my first question to all schools was have you got experience of adopted children?
Our little lady has adjusted very well, but we won't put her into full time school until next year and it will be gradual, so stay for lunch for a while and then we pick her up. As she is only just 4, she wouldn't cope with a full day yet.
As for the financial questions. We got a settling in grant from our LA. We had to produce receipts for the items we had brought. We also got expenses for when we took our LO our during intros. From what I can gather, the amount varies from one authority to another.
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Post by spideress on Sept 18, 2013 21:59:12 GMT
Hello Spideress I'd really recommend going to the schools, chatting with the Head and the Senco and generally getting a feel for the school. Your LO is likely to need some support, even if just in the transition to a new school, and you need to be sure that the school of your choice is geared up to provide that. Also, how nurturing and inclusive are they? If they are keen to make examples out of naughty children or are extremely keen on sticker charts etc you might want to look elsewhere! Best of luck. MMx If I can get an update from SW as to what has been sorted out for him I will see if I can go meet someone there before he moves in with us and get the "feel" for the place. |
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Post by spideress on Sept 18, 2013 22:03:00 GMT
My little one was home for 2.5 weeks before she started school. She is just 4. HOWEVER, before people think I am really mean, she wanted to go to school, her class has only 5 children in it and she only does mornings. She loves it and can't understand why she can't go at the weekends!! I looked at a few schools before she came home and my first question to all schools was have you got experience of adopted children? Our little lady has adjusted very well, but we won't put her into full time school until next year and it will be gradual, so stay for lunch for a while and then we pick her up. As she is only just 4, she wouldn't cope with a full day yet. As for the financial questions. We got a settling in grant from our LA. We had to produce receipts for the items we had brought. We also got expenses for when we took our LO our during intros. From what I can gather, the amount varies from one authority to another. He will have just completed a half term doing full time hours at school so that might help us see how well he coped with such a change in the hours "away" that he had been previously used to. I am hoping I get a proper update on everything when we see SW later this week. |
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Post by Ad-minnie! on Sept 18, 2013 22:30:08 GMT
Don't feel you have to put him in school. Children vary as do adopters. But bonding with him is the most important thing. SO if you feel him being with you is the best thing fight for it. Obviously, there are situations (as swimchic has descried with her LO) where going to school will work well.
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Post by spideress on Sept 19, 2013 5:19:53 GMT
Don't feel you have to put him in school. Children vary as do adopters. But bonding with him is the most important thing. SO if you feel him being with you is the best thing fight for it. Obviously, there are situations (as swimchic has descried with her LO) where going to school will work well. I thought that legally he needs to be in school though I suppose I could claim he is being home schooled for a while as I think you just need to show you are teaching him certain things like maths and reading? I will certainly wait and see how he is when he (hopefully) gets to be with us and expect I will be more "listened to" once he is here. |
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Post by spideress on Sept 19, 2013 5:28:56 GMT
As I understand it, if they are registered with a school the Head can give you permission not to be there if there's a good reason? Such as settling in and making a gradual start to the new school. That is good. once I know where he has been allocated I will make arrangements to go and see them to discuss all his options. |
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Post by spideress on Sept 19, 2013 8:41:56 GMT
Hi Spideress You get Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit from the day the LO moves in with you. In the "handover meeting" the LAC will provide you with a letter stating that you are the full time carer for the child, a copy of their birth certificate, we were also given a fairy stiffly worded letter to HMRC stating that the LO was placed for adoption and the under no circumstances were HMRC to reveal new address to BPs. After our application went in we were contacted by phone by HMRC within a couple of days, who apparently have a special desk that deals with adoptions, it would appear BPs had been claiming Child Benefit after children taken into care, but not our problem. Payments started within a couple of weeks of applying. When AO goes through, you need to contact them again for change of name surname. For info see www.gov.uk/child-benefit/overview and www.gov.uk/child-tax-credit/overviewUnfortunately you do not get fostering payment. Depending on your circumstances you may get an adoption grant for specific things such as child seat, but there is a limited budget to these and I under stand from out SW that they are few and far between. But tot up your costs for things you will have to buy if you need a grant this should be included in the placement plan. The LA should also pay your expenses during introductions, e.g. mileage and accommodation but did not food and cost of outings. Infact we were given a hire car as it was cheaper than using our own for them, lucky as we found out the LO gets very car sick and filled up the back foot well one day. As for school our LO went at the end of the first week of move in as absolutely desperate to make friends in new home town, so I ended up going back to work a week early  , started on a Friday so low key day to find way around rather than get thrown in for a full 5 days on a Monday. Has had no apparent effect on attachment, but every child is different. Don't forget as a LAC you have a massive advantage as your choice of school cannot turn your child away even if full, they may kick and scream but you have the upper hand. Recent change in law means that from this Sep LOs remain in the same priority group as LAC kids even after AO has gone through so no fretting about which you will get your first choice school in the future. Thanks. Does the priority for schools still count once AO is through so when they are due to move to secondary school do they get priority then too? |
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Post by swimchic on Sept 19, 2013 10:16:22 GMT
Just a couple of things
A child does not have to legally be in school until they are 5. Please do not feel that you have to send them to school. What is important is that you have time together to grow the attachment and get to know each other. We had 2.5 weeks, plus intros and it was just the 3 of us. Intense, yes, however it was worth it!
As for child benefit. I applied for it once we had the review meeting the day before she came home. You will need the birth certificate ( which HMRC returned)We took got a phone call to clarify everything and it took 3 weeks for it to be processed. Just remember that once the adoption is all legal you will need to notify HMRC.
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Post by peartree on Sept 19, 2013 14:02:03 GMT
not sure about fostering allowance, although frankly I think you SHOULD get FA until AO goes through and then they should MATCH FA (We are talking about the same child after all!)
I know that because it took literally years to get the legal placment things sorted we eventually got "relative friend allowance" which is somewhere inbetween.
And no
we were not a "relative" and not "friend" either.
just that was the easier legal fit than foster care or adoptive care at that point.
something else to ask about.
(excited for your november start!)
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Ax
, started on a Friday so low key day to find way around rather than get thrown in for a full 5 days on a Monday. Has had no apparent effect on attachment, but every child is different. Don't forget as a LAC you have a massive advantage as your choice of school cannot turn your child away even if full, they may kick and scream but you have the upper hand. Recent change in law means that from this Sep LOs remain in the same priority group as LAC kids even after AO has gone through so no fretting about which you will get your first choice school in the future.