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Post by imp on Jan 7, 2014 1:21:06 GMT
Thoughts please.
If your LOs FC isn't/wasn't visibly upset when they say goodbye at 'handover 'day, does that affect your view of them? |
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Post by moo on Jan 7, 2014 7:05:00 GMT
No I'm not sure it would.... I think the relationship gets time to build over the week & an understanding/ knowledge forms....
I soo wish I had had one of you wonderful ladies caring for baa & skweek.... Their f/c did not care less about baa in fact she actively disliked him & told me so on numerous occasions.... I ( rose tint here I am afraid )had really wanted to keep in touch & meet up regularly as the boys grew... I considered it very important for the boys....
I feel very sad & cheated on baa & skweek's behalf!!! Baa still remembers her badly  & just the mention of visiting her had him wetting himself 
The memory has faded a bit now.... Luckily we Never Go to the town where she is.... I think soon after placement if we had baa would have recognised & I dred to think how he would have reacted...  Even tho tiny his hypervigilance would have worked it out.... 
Hope you get 'normal ' responses...
Great Thread Imp.....
Xx. moo. Xx
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 7:18:26 GMT
Yes and no.
I think if there wasn't some small show of emotion during the week and at handover time I would be a little worried TBH.
Caring for a child for any length of time must surely elicit some emotions, or you shouldn't be doing the job surely?
I can fully understand a FC putting on a brave face and struggling to hold it together particularily if it was a favourite child, but I think you would not be human to not show "some" emotion throughout the intro's when moving a child on, and I would be worried if I didn't see any emotion at all.
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flora
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Post by flora on Jan 7, 2014 8:21:54 GMT
I find it incredibly helpful to know how much my AS was loved by his foster family. Their love and commitment to him was obvious throughout introductions, however, they did everything they could to show him that they were supportive of the adoption. They did their best to contain their emotions when saying goodbye, but I know they had a good cry as soon as we left
It makes them feel almost like family as we have that shared bond over our love for AS
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Post by donatella on Jan 7, 2014 9:33:41 GMT
We have mixed experiences. No1 - I don't think she was that attached to my son. He was home with us at 5 months and because of her circumstances at the time he was her last placement. She'd fought hard to adopt her other fosling and bigly was a job more than anything.
Middlys was lovely and 9 years in we're still in contact. He was her first to be moved on to adoption and we both learned a lot from each other. She was upset - appropriately so - but held it together till we left.
and no3. Well, we didnt see them at handover. They hid in the kitchen having invited all their extended family. A sw had to do the handover. Upset? Yes, for themselves very much. Couldn't put her first though. We're not in contact!
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Post by kstar on Jan 7, 2014 19:24:57 GMT
Starlet had her coat on and was waiting in the porch when I turned up to collect her. Her SW and I were not even allowed in the front door and none of the rest of the family so much as looked out to wave. I asked FC to help me take the last things to the car but she said starlet could manage and went back inside. I was horrified and starlet was very confused :-(
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Post by sivier on Jan 7, 2014 20:09:09 GMT
I think I would be worried if I detected no emotion throughout...at handover I'd imagine many FCs would do their best to contain their own sadness or distress for the benefit of the child.
Our AD's FC was pretty upset but managed it well on the handover day. Unfortunately they'd had a big family meal out with AD the evening before - I say unfortunately just because of the timing, even the evening before that would have been better as it rather confused and exhausted AD the day before handover. But it was well-intentioned. They all adored her. I'd rather have had the love and care that she experienced with that family and a bit of poor planning at the end, than exemplary planning for intros and no depth feeling for AD. We're still in touch with the FC family.
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Post by chotimonkey on Jan 7, 2014 21:00:58 GMT
If I felt they weren't upset at all Nd had seen no evidence of their affection for lo during intros if be worried.
FC for squirrel and howler and family and curious George's FC clearly adored the children and both said before handover that they just wanted us to turn up and go quickly and not prolong it, they were v obviously putting a brave face, hugged lo goodbye and both had friends comin to support them afterwards
I don't like to see anyone hurting and am glad they didn't wail and cling to Los, but am glad that they found it hard because it meant our children were loved and important while they were there
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Post by gilreth on Jan 7, 2014 23:08:26 GMT
Sqk's FC asked us not to prolong the leaving and had a good day out planned for her 2 LTFC siblings. Whole family was obviously emotional but brilliant throughout Intros. We meet up for the first time since placement on Sunday at local soft play. Well I met FC before Christmas when she dropped his gifts off. It's actually been fun avoiding each other as we happen to live a mile apart in same place  Expecting fallout on Sunday from Sqk but it is the right thing to do to maintain the relationship. Her 2 LTFC are like elder siblings to Sqk and have been through a disruption so were a little wary at first. I will be waiting for fallout next week I expect. |
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Post by imp on Jan 8, 2014 12:48:24 GMT
Thanks for responses. I was thinking more about the actual 'hand over' time, also I suppose how emotions were shown at any time during Intros.
What level of obvious emotion /affection/bonding do you feel is 'right'?
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Post by chotimonkey on Jan 8, 2014 13:47:22 GMT
Both of our FCs didn't cry , but to us as adults were clearly (and completely understandably ) upset. Handover was v quick with v little chit chat on either side, all three times they hugged the child, passed them to us we hugged and didn't really say goodbye, but see you on the .... As we met up with FC within a couple of weeks all three times.
Ours were all little, oldest was 16 months, and didn't understand they were saying goodbye to living with them and this worked well for them. I think it's ok to cry and show that they love the child and they will be missed as long as it's followed by saying something genuinely positive about their new home and family and how it's the right place for them and how they will see them again.
I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was our brilliant FCs did to give our Los emotional permission to move on but because they did what they did so well , our Los can meet up with them, enjoy seeing them and going back to the FC house without huge confusion on returning to ours. Last time we went to see squirrel and howlers FC at her house squirrel loved being told this is what you did here, this is where you are your dinner etc
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 13:58:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 14:04:18 GMT
Imp I wouldn't expect to see emotion at the "actual handover" as I think everyone tries to be brave at that time and handover should be done as quickly as possible to avoid anyone erupting into tears which will surely alarm any child no matter how well prepared they are.
Brave faces are best from all adults and then leave as quickly as possible.
I'm sure once the door closes, most FC's dissolve in tears, but at least not in front of the child.
I think adopters should remember to phone the next day just to let FC know how LO was through their first night and to re-assure FC that LO is /was ok.
It's the least we could do.
Such a hard job, I don't know how you do it.
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Post by chotimonkey on Jan 8, 2014 14:13:13 GMT
During intros both FC repeatedly told us how special and wonderful they had found our children. Squirrel has particularly loved by FC husband and the night before handover was his last night with her so we said he could do her last bottle and he obviously said an emotional and loving goodbye to her and passed her over to us with tears in his eyes to put her to bed. FC for squirrel and howler guided children c gently towards us in intros stepping back during the weeks but her love for them was written all over her face... She also told us how special squirrel was as her (then) longest placed baby. She talked about them with great love and pride and v much taught us how to parent them v gently.
Curious George's FC also told us about loads if things that were special and wonderful and told us lots of lovely memories about him and funny things. She had put superhuman effort into what came with him, with photo albums, letters from everyone in the family, contact book, his special possessions where v well organised, baby foot prints etc some extremely wonderful and thoughtful things. She also told us how hard it would be to say goodby but she knew he was going to the right place and that she wanted another baby asap
I will try to stop posting on this thread, but it makes me keep thinking about how lucky we are to have had such great FC for our children. That they have only known love and have always been treated as special is very apparent in their personalities and we are so deeply grateful
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Post by sooz on Jan 8, 2014 14:24:04 GMT
It's a difficult one to answer really. Ds was brought here on last day by fc and her sw, fc got to look around our house and see ds new bedroom. She was holding it together and said a very quick goodbye. She was obviously distressed and dashed out to the car before she dissolved into tears. I had an overwhelming urge to hug her but had ds in my arms. So hard for everyone.
I'm not sure holding back is necessarily the right thing, surely if we want our children to show their feelings and understand how sad it is to lose someone you love or care for then showing your emotions should be beneficial?
Maybe it's just me, but I clearly remember the day my dad left, 36 years ago, I sat in the armchair while he said 'right then I'm off now' and I said 'yeah'. He showed no emotion and I thought it was easy for him, my heart broke. Of course years later I know he was very upset but I thought I wasn't allowed to be upset or cry or show my hurt because he didn't. Just typing this has made me sob!
No easy answer x
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Post by wibbley on Jan 9, 2014 16:42:30 GMT
With DD I could tell how hard it was for FFamily to say good bye. It was very sad, but they did hold it together. DS - OMG!!! Wailing, screaming, clinging, all kids in the family off school to say goodbye. Horrendous & how very very scary for DS.
Ironically, I know that DD was very very much part of FC family, DS not so much - yet sky high emotions for his goodbye?
You are not a robot, no one expects no emotion, but to the child first & how they feel at handover has to come first.
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Post by imp on Jan 9, 2014 18:56:14 GMT
Again, thanks for replies. Now to say how I am during Intros.
My 'bad' day is the day when I am told that the LO has been matched---before I meet the adopters. On that day I am GRUMPY!!!!!!
Once I have met the adopters I just get on with the process and -hopefully- I can see that it is a good match
I very much hope that adopters can see just how much we love our LOs throughout our meeting, and Intros, because I don't cry as they leave, or even afterwards, I just feel a sense of loss---and pleasure that they are now starting the rest of their life.
My poem about the LO sized hole says it all I think.
I did post this however because I did wonder how the absence of tears would be seen by adopters.
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Post by nomoretears on Jan 9, 2014 20:45:23 GMT
Imp I think I'm exactly like you - I wait and wait for a match, then when it comes I hate it!  Luckily almost all the adoptions I've done have been good matches so once I've met new mummy and daddy I feel better. I worry that I might come across as a bit unemotional during intros, despite how much I love the child. I think that new parents have enough to cope with without worrying about an emotional foster carer too. That's not to say I don't have my moments or little wobbles, but I'd probably go out of the room to brew up or something so I could hide it. I also find handover days have got easier over the years - I just keep them v short - it's the night before that I dread, knowing that this is the last Goodnight, the last tucking in bed, the last cuddle back to sleep if they wake... I'm shocked to read how some handovers have been though - especially poor Starlet and Baa. (just wanted to add that I can't re-iterate jmk's point about a phone call (or even a text) the next day strongly enough. I spend the whole of that first night without LO wondering how they are doing) |
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Post by loadsofbubs on Jan 9, 2014 21:17:50 GMT
i'm like imp and nomoretears. is the linking stage before I meet the parents that I grumble around the house! usually once I've met parents i'm fine, have only had one match I wasn't happy with, sadly was proven right in my niggles, and that experience has made the pre intro stage much harder since but am confident that eventually i'll get less stressed by it all. but a quick handover essential really. normally have family turn up, spend 10-15 minutes with LO to make it less like a being stolen scenario for everyone then bags in the car and off they go. works well. was twitchy when one lot were 30 minutes late, not becoz I didn't think they'd turn up but becoz I need it done quickly and it just prolongs the inevitable and I was pacing the floor til they came which was unsettling for LO. but no tears normally. cried buckets for the bbs but that was somewhat different and not representative of the other moves I have done.
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Post by kstar on Jan 14, 2014 19:12:45 GMT
This is a really interesting discussion, it's so good to hear things from each side of the fence so to speak. I'm also really pleased that a lot of people have much more positive experiences with foster carers than I did. Unfortunately I have had to draw the conclusion that starlet's FC just didn't like her (she's way older than their specialist age) in spite of having her with them for years. I don't know why, she is hard work at times but is instantly engaging and everyone she meets adores her and is her slave within minutes ( as Knight will confirm!)
I wouldn't necessarily have expected tears but I did expect the handover to be a bit more emotional for me. Everyone here had said to take pics together - fat chance, I wasn't there long enough to even get my camera out. I think it would be very reassuring as an adopter to see a little bit of emotion from the FC because that gives us the message our precious little ones have been loved. But I think (or would hope!) that most adopters have the emotional intelligence to know when FC are just being careful not to show too much and when they are generally lacking in emotion!
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Post by ceci on Jan 14, 2014 21:27:56 GMT
I've often wondered about this. I remember my daughters foster carer (mum) doing a quick handover in the car after we'd taken dd for her medical. She gave her a quick kiss and said goodbye. I was in pieces. Her foster carer said she'd already said her goodbyes earlier and I wasn't to bring dd back into the house to say goodbye to her husband. I did find it all a bit strange at the time but it was probably the right thing to do. She was always keen afterwards to hear about dd. I guess foster carers need to find ways of coping for themselves as well as making the experience as easy as possible for everyone.
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Post by knight on Jan 17, 2014 23:45:16 GMT
Unfortunately I have had to draw the conclusion that starlet's FC just didn't like her (she's way older than their specialist age) in spite of having her with them for years. I don't know why, she is hard work at times but is instantly engaging and everyone she meets adores her and is her slave within minutes ( as Knight will confirm!)
Absolutely kstar: starlet got me hook, line and sinker - she really is an absolute poppet, my perfect child (ooopppps, am I allowed to say that!!?? but of course, my child will be my perfect child...obviously!!)
I think I would find it hard if my future child's FC was overtly visibly upset on moving day, such that it was very distressing for the child (plus it would set me off ). I'm sure that one way or the other and for whatever reasons - it would be clear if the FC was upset but holding it together on moving day; to one who was passive. I'd be devastated for my child if the reason FC wasn't upset was due to being glad to see the back of her (as with my long term foster cousins - who didn't deserve the label because then and several years on, they really are great kids): it's a balance isn't it - hopefully we get to know the FC a little from the concentrated intros and I'm sure gauge why there were no visible signs on moving day. Hopefully, it would be the quick ripping off of the plaster for all concerned (with the reassuring text the next day as someone mentioned here). Gosh, being a FC is just not something I could do (so well and truly, hats off to you) x
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 9:58:00 GMT
Great discussion! Just wondering Imp, (and other FC's) does it get any easier the more kids you move on or does it depend on the child. I mean you are bound to have favourites, but I imagine it is still hard no matter what. Like Knight, I couldn't do it, I'd be dreadful at letting go.  |
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Post by imp on Jan 18, 2014 18:17:19 GMT
Yes jmk, it is hard because they are all special ---but obviously even harder with those extra special ones.
Something that also affects me--and I'm sure other FCs is the sheer exhaustion that follows Intros.
I know that Adopters also go through this---and have their LO to cope with as well. but personally I do find the whole process---getting all of LOs clothes and belongings together (and we always miss a vital part of a toy)Welcoming and supporting the Adopters---trying to make the process as easy for them as possible. trying to remember everything that will be helpful for them to know. Supporting LO in getting to know strangers. Keeping the house clean and tidy. Providing food and refreshments for people we don't know (please, do be honest about what you will and won't eat) etc.
I love the whole process because it means my LO will (hopefully) be moving on to the rest of their lives with a loving, supportive family, and hopefully the Adopters can see, during Intros, just how much we do love the children, but are just not the 'crying' type, what we do is love them and let them go.
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Post by swimchic on Jan 18, 2014 20:59:03 GMT
Pink had lovely FC's who on handover day ran out of the room in tears..
We have heard from them and I always get the feeling that there was an element of regret that they didn't adopt her. But at the time they were adamant they didn't want to foster a child of her age again. I took that personally as she is our daughter and a delight.
From an Adopters point of view, I wish that they had had more support when we brought Pink home. BUT that wasn't our fault that was SS fault. I also felt that the FC children were a very high priority and I did wonder a few times what/ who the priority was. They clearly loved Pink and certainly brought her on. It could of been a case of lack of experience as Pink was their first long placement and again they weren't supported enough.
We would NEVER stop Pink from seeing her FC's but we have never been asked for feedback, which I think maybe beneficial.
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Post by serrakunda on Jan 20, 2014 13:53:50 GMT
Our FC was very strange to be honest. The first time I met her, or rather was in the same room, she completely ignored me, was clearly very angry about something and had a raging argument with the LA team. The next two meetings she cried and was obviously very upset. On the second day of intros when I was there for three hours, she spent approx an hour with some people who had come to collect a puppy(she's a dog breeder) and about an hour on the phone. She was still on the phone when I left and obviously wasn't listening when I told her what train I was getting the next day. The result was she had Simba ready an hour early and she complained to the SWs about that and that I wasn't asking her any questions. She thawed during the week but it was all very uncomfortable, on the day she gave Simba a big hug and rushed off, probably for a good cry. I know she loved him, she did a fantastic job with him and it's her behaviour since I've found difficult to understand. Simba sends her birthday cards which go unacknowledged, he has written a few times with news and photos, around his birthday and Christmas Simba watches the post for something from her. He gets a card which is fine, but no note, nothing to say thanks for the photos, looked like you had a great time at cub camp or whatever, just something to show a bit of interest. Simba noticed it at Christmas. I would be more than happy for Simba to have meaningful contact with her, she was such an important part of her life but it's not going to happen.
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& just the mention of visiting her had him wetting himself 
Even tho tiny his hypervigilance would have worked it out.... 
Expecting fallout on Sunday from Sqk but it is the right thing to do to maintain the relationship. Her 2 LTFC are like elder siblings to Sqk and have been through a disruption so were a little wary at first. I will be waiting for fallout next week I expect.
